An Age of Miracles: The Revival of Rhomanion

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So Iskandar is just trying to make a point, not trying to conquer the Empire.

If the Portuguese are still making troubles, the Empire may just send a raid to Lisbon, pillaging but not killing. They may use the Despot/ even Arles for supplies.
 
Looks like Iskandar's piety rating is a full on -100.

Tax modifier +20%
Manpower +20%
Technology cost -10%


Also I am of the opinion that Roman hatred towards the Serbs really aught to be resolved in some manner, your response to AussiHawker making me think of that. It is quite clear that they absolutely hate those guys and have not forgotten past issues with them. There needs to be some kind of resolution for that hatred, maybe a war or three. It might even make sense for Rhomania to pull a Judea (or in the case of TTL, a Bulgaria) and deport the Serbs to the winds while settling their lands with Greeks and Anatolian Turks. It might make sense to settle the Danube with some of those loyal Turkish tribes as a marcher territory against Hungary or as a way to launch cavalry raids into the flat Pannonian Basin.

Also a question in the vein of my comment about the Serbs, what is Belgrade like? IIRC Ottoman Belgrade around this time was the largest city in the Balkans and super prosperous but since it's not a part of the Ottoman Empire it's probably different of course.
 
That Shimazu annexation of the Chosokabe also came as a surprise for me.
How fierce was the fighting there? I was under the impression that the Shimazu were still recovering from the debacle at sea.

Also the Serbs are unlikely to affect Rhomania-Hungary status quo any time soon.
What worth does Serbia have to act out over when you have Persia&Maghreb / Germany&Italy to worry about?
 
Romania's on the downswing again it seems. Losses and setbacks all around.

Seems that way so far, but I don't think it'll last. I think empire has built in institutional advantages to tolerate these minor starting blows and "outstay" it's opponents.

Something like Britain at start of 7 years war.
 
Well, it looks like Iskander is a more reasonable man than Demetrios. As long as he lives he will keep the religious fanatics at bay and look for a reasonable solution. I wonder what his plans are though? He attacked Georgia. If he takes territory from them, they will want it back at some point.

And the levantime muslims are screwed. I doubt that Iskander can conquer and hold the area. When the war is over they can decide between leaving or getting another beating.

I like the ideas of dispersing the serbs around the empire to ease of tensions in roman serbia. After subduing the levantine region, there should be some space for serbian settlers.
 
I'm impressed that the Shimazu have put themselves in an increasingly powerful position. But I wonder if the clan may be looking for the shogun's seat these days.
 
Iskander seems too good to be true (not that I'm complaining), this approach so reasonable will do wonders for the Ottomans, the romans can only hope he somehow dies sparking some ToT level crisis (with heirs too young, everything would be up for grabs). I'm kind of underwhelmed by roman troops (specifically in Egypt), not being able to protect their artillery train against Hassan's troops??
 
If I was the Roman Emperor,I bet I would have raged like Hitler in Downfall.Seriously,how the heck did a regular army led by properly trained officers lose to an amateur brigand like Hassan?
 
What worth does Serbia have to act out over when you have Persia&Maghreb / Germany&Italy to worry about?

Well for one didn't they take back all those huge gold and silver mines around Kosovo a while ago? Those mines were the backbone of the Ottoman Economy and coinage in this time period so Rhomania doing without them is impressive.

I like the ideas of dispersing the serbs around the empire to ease of tensions in roman serbia. After subduing the levantine region, there should be some space for serbian settlers.

In such a foreign landscape they will probably be more friendship between Serbs and Greeks in the area than hatred. It reminds me of a story I heard on this site with someone in Indonesia where the Serbian and Croatian residents (and maybe Bosnian too) who were there all got along really really well because the culture around them was so foreign that they took solace in their similarly Slavic neighbours.

In this case it would probably be the Orthodoxy that unites them rather than the Slavicness.
 
You know this could be the sign of a new strife brewing in the Ottoman Empire, specifically between the secular authorities and the religious fanatics.
If Iskander keeps going against the wishes of the mufti and the imams, they could start censuring and undermining him.
 
Well for one didn't they take back all those huge gold and silver mines around Kosovo a while ago? Those mines were the backbone of the Ottoman Economy and coinage in this time period so Rhomania doing without them is impressive.

I think this was covered by Basileus actually.
The Hungarians let the Romans have southern Serbia and its gold/silver mines because they'd already been heavily mined out during the days of Andreas Niketas.

EDIT: Here, from page 490:
Stefan is caught fleeing from the fall of Ras and is incarcerated in Vienna, in relatively comfortable settings (Serbian chroniclers claim that first though he was forced to eat the scroll containing the original demand for Bosnia, parchment, tassels, and seal) but as far removed as possible from his former kingdom. Andrew’s older sister Margaret is named Ban of Serbia as his replacement, ruling over all of it save for Novo Brdo which becomes a Roman kephalate; Andrew does not contest Helena’s fait accompli. Although there are still lodes of silver there, the mines are not nearly a great a price as they were a century earlier. Intensive mining during the reign of Andreas Niketas exhausted many of the veins.
 
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In such a foreign landscape they will probably be more friendship between Serbs and Greeks in the area than hatred. It reminds me of a story I heard on this site with someone in Indonesia where the Serbian and Croatian residents (and maybe Bosnian too) who were there all got along really really well because the culture around them was so foreign that they took solace in their similarly Slavic neighbours.

...So, how many Serbs could you resettle in Egypt?
 
I think this was covered by Basileus actually.
The Hungarians let the Romans have southern Serbia and its gold/silver mines because they'd already been heavily mined out during the days of Andreas Niketas.

EDIT: Here, from page 490:

An unfortunate result. I believe those mines were productive well into the 1600s, that must have been some really intense mining.

...So, how many Serbs could you resettle in Egypt?

Probably depends upon how many Egyptians end up dead in this revolt and how much land is available for settling. You could theoretically relocate all of Serbia to Egypt if there was enough land for them.
 
If I was the Roman Emperor,I bet I would have raged like Hitler in Downfall.Seriously,how the heck did a regular army led by properly trained officers lose to an amateur brigand like Hassan?

Hassan didn't even try to face the Roman army in open battle - he just got really lucky and managed to destroy the Roman siege train, after which they pulled back. Once it's replaced, they'll be back with better rear area security and knowing not to underestimate him.
 
Probably depends upon how many Egyptians end up dead in this revolt and how much land is available for settling. You could theoretically relocate all of Serbia to Egypt if there was enough land for them.

A few pages back basileus posted the population of egypt. IIRC it was over a million less than a century before. There should be enough space allready. Question is if the romans would allow a relocation to a despotate. It would weaken their own population base and if they need settlers for the levant I don't see egypt getting any.
 
Another great update!

I think the situation the ERE has now is basically the problem of staying on top when the rest of the world is catching up, it's being nibbled everywhere because it's hard to maintain everything.

Though i hope they somehow manage to expand after this and end the war somewhat amicably with these rational ottomans(?)
 
Tjakari: I like cliffhangers. :p;)
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The assault on Mecca naturally has the Syrian Muslims riled up, plus the Imperial government does treat them like dirt. It’s not to the level of the Copt treatment of the Egyptian Muslims but that is a really low bar to clear.
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HanEmpire: The Mad Mahdi of Mecca is one of history’s little mysteries, despite the best efforts of historians.
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The Romans are really mad right now and aren’t in the mood for this sort of thing. Gentleness isn’t even being considered. As a proportion of the Empire’s population the Arab Muslims aren’t that big, but they make the vast majority of the inhabitants of inland Syria and Palestine. So wiping them out poses significant security problems, particularly with an aggressive Shah.
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Soverihn: Rhomania is definitely having a bad decade. As for Iskandar, he will quite likely be the greatest of the Shahanshahs. He is already in the process of reforming the army. There are still strong feudal contingents maintained via timars but he is increasing the number of standing troops. The Shahsevan are just the first.
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Djacir: Coastal Syria is overwhelmingly Greek Orthodox, as well as Aleppo, Damascus, and Jerusalem/Bethlehem. The Imperial government has no fears of disloyalty there.
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Gianni rivera: Iskandar is interested in grabbing some border provinces, but not in destroying the Roman Empire. He doesn’t think such a thing is possible.
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Evilprodigy: Iskandar is a faithful Muslim but has absolutely no patience with religious fanatics, who he considers to be mostly stupid, undisciplined cowards. There will be more on this in later updates.
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As for Roman attitudes to the Serbs, there’s a lot of resentment there that has been festering for a long time. The Romans view the Serbs as ungrateful treacherous bastards who rebel at the drop of the hat and who are disgustingly eager to side with any Catholics invading the Empire. So there is a very strong sense of schadenfreude with the Serbs being persecuted by Catholics.
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Belgrade is one of the larger Serbian towns but under King Vukasin who orchestrated Serbian independence during the Time of Troubles the political and economic base of Serbia shifted south to Ras. Under Hungarian administration it has not changed.
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HanEmpire: The fighting in Japan but there has been enough time for the Shimazu to lick their wounds (Yamage was in 1582). It did help that the Chosokabe’s Portuguese allies were off trolling the Romans.
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Stark: The Empire will strike back. ;)
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Darthfanta: The non-Anatolian Muslims are counting on Ottoman support, or at least for Iskandar to keep the Romans too occupied to deal with them.
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Norlag: Iskandar’s goals are to take the Georgian territories south of the Aras. These were originally Ottoman territories which were then conquered by Timur II. The Georgians then wrested them from Timur II and kept them. Iskandar also wants the Black Stone remitted to his custody so that he can return it to Mecca (the Romans suspect this to be a front for setting himself up as Protector of the Holy Cities and they’re right). He also is interested in wresting some Roman border territories but has no set goals here, waiting to see how the fortunes of war turn.
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Noblesse Oblige: If the Shimazu had managed to reach their position just a few years earlier they would have a good shot at becoming shogun. Unfortunately for them, since 1582 after the Shimazu were heavily defeated at Yamage, the Azai have managed to unify Honshu.
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Arrix85: Having everybody be murderous religious fanatics gets old after a while. :p;) The substandard Roman performance in Egypt is partly a mix of bad luck, overconfidence, and flat-out incompetence. There are a lot of old Roman officers promoted on the basis of seniority in the long years of peace so there is a good amount of dead wood lying around.
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Evilprodigy: Do you remember the source for the Novo Brdo mines still producing into the 1600s? From what I’ve read, I think it was Franz Babinger’s Mehmed the Conqueror and His Times, those mines were playing out already by the time the Ottomans conquered them.
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Although hyper-intensive mining would help explain how Andreas Niketas was able to keep taxes low whilst still accomplishing his many projects, all those wars, building the White Palace, laying the groundwork for Pepper Fleets less than twenty years after the fall of Egypt.
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HanEmpire: Iskandar is a moderate Muslim. He wants the Romans out of Mecca, but he blames religious fanatics for incurring the wrath of the Romans. Further atrocities are just going to make them more intransigent. Of course there is nothing fanatics hate more than a moderate.
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There will be more on Iskandar’s mentality regarding the Romans in future updates.
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Tyg: A lot. Egypt’s population is less than 3 million now, it may have been more than twice that before the Black Death.
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Chosen Chaos: Right. The Romans got cocky and the Idwaits got very lucky.
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Casval: Exactly. The Romans can’t be strong everywhere and they’ve got too many interests and too many enemies, although better diplomacy and a calmer Demetrios might have helped alleviate the latter problem.
 
Evilprodigy: Do you remember the source for the Novo Brdo mines still producing into the 1600s? From what I’ve read, I think it was Franz Babinger’s Mehmed the Conqueror and His Times, those mines were playing out already by the time the Ottomans conquered them.
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Although hyper-intensive mining would help explain how Andreas Niketas was able to keep taxes low whilst still accomplishing his many projects, all those wars, building the White Palace, laying the groundwork for Pepper Fleets less than twenty years after the fall of Egypt.

It was either one of the readings my History of the Muslim Gunpowder Empires class last year or it was mentioned in lecture for that same class. I'll take a look but I can't make any promises.

Would hyper-intensive mining also make sense in the context of what our old friend Theodoros the Merchant Emperor? The one whose notes Andreas kept referring to all the time (I have no idea if it's an Emperor Theodoros, that was all a while ago so I have kind of forgot).

EDIT: I checked through my notes using ctrl+f for keywords like Silver, Gold, Mine, and Coin. I did not find anything though I do distinctly recall my professor mentioning it in the context of silver coins eventually going east due to trade along the Silk Road to the 'black hole' of China where Silver came in and never came out. He said that Silver and Gold mining in the Balkans was the backbone of the Ottoman Economy for that reason of facilitating Silk Road trade and their valuable coin, the Silver Akçe, which was used in their tax system for the Resm-i Çift (which didn't go away until the 1640s according to my notes), Zakat, and Jizyah.
None of the readings scream "economic history" to me, plus I am no longer a student at Yorku so I cannot access most of the material anyways. I still have my textbook, Stephen Dale's The Muslim Empires of the Ottomans, Safavids, and Mughals so I can take a look there when I return home tomorrow.
 
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Great new addition mate. Almost every religion and race is represented in Egypt as well, Sunnis, Roman heterodox muslims, Orthodox, catholics, maybe even Germanic/Finnic pagans depending if the Varangian guard takes part. Recipe for medieval Yugoslav war is here, for sure.

Also, in the case of the Ottomans, Sufism is big in the court, and Sufism is mostly about hopping in circles and invoking 99 names of Allah instead of decapitating infidels while Sunnism is popular among peasants. This might help to explain Iskander's attitude as well.
 
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