Can't forts instead and cannons prevent ships from going through the Dardanelles and Bosporus? The ships can be used elsewhere in that case.
An Age of Miracles: The Revival of Rhomanion
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Can't forts instead and cannons prevent ships from going through the Dardanelles and Bosporus? The ships can be used elsewhere in that case.
ehm, that's exactly the meaning of the text you quoted
. The straits are guarded by forts.ehm, that's exactly the meaning of the text you quoted
Oops, you are correct.
So no attempted Gallipoli landings by anyone then, 400 years earlier?
Evilprodigy
Donor
Idea, station the navy in the Carthage to Malta to Sicily area, that's really all you need given that the only nations with a coast to the east of that are Milan (Bit of a problem but IIRC their navy is mostly stationed in Genoa), Hungary (Rebuilding so no threat), The Black Sea nations (Allies), The Marinids (Busy with the Spanish), and the Rhomans.
The only big issue with stationing the navy in that area is that any local pirates would be worrisome.
The only big issue with stationing the navy in that area is that any local pirates would be worrisome.
With the Spanish about to curb stomp the corsairs of Africa, I'd hazard a guess that naval superiority isn't as important there. Although there's Carthage sitting there just waiting for independence (perhaps if the religious laws get too strict?) or someone to snatch it up.
Besides, there's the Indian Ocean ventures to think about...
Besides, there's the Indian Ocean ventures to think about...
It's awful. You should be ashamed, finding our madness funnyIs it bad I find it amusing some people are speculating about an alternate history to an alternate history?
I've been wondering, do you intend for the butterfly effect to have had any significant impact on the Americas? I'm beginning to wonder if you are using the slow pace of interaction between the continents to give the natives a chance to immunize to some extent.
Also, do we have any info on Japan or the other non-China far eastern nations forthcoming?
I'm gonna guess that the Americas ITTL will fair notably better than they did in OTL. It's already decades after OTL's contact with the continents, which should at least put the Inca's in a more stable situation than when the Spanish arrived, though I don't know enough to speak for the Aztecs. Furthermore this TL seems to be intent on being somewhat less Western-European dominated than ours was, with development being more evenly shared worldwide. I reckon that while large scale European colonialism in the America's is fairly inevitable, a number of native states will survive, particularly in the Central America and the Andes.
You can always attempt a Gallipoli. Succeeding is another matter. For perspective on trying it now ITTL, imagine the OTL Gallipoli campaign, but replace the Turkish batteries with modern 12in and 6in guns and crews to match.
Stationing the Imperial Fleet off Carthage-Malta-Trapani-Messina is an idea, but the Romans are very very touchy about the security of the Aegean Basin. The last time it was exposed to naval attack, the Black Day happened. And Milan, the main (really the only at the moment) naval threat to Rhomania, has ports on the Adriatic. Yes, the bulk of its ships are in Liguria, but if the Imperial fleet split off vessels to secure the Adriatic as well, it would be too weak to hold the west against the Milanese fleet from Genoa.
Now if the Venetians fully went at it, they could potentially shut down the Adriatic, but even though it's Venetia now, Constantinople equally dislikes the idea of that city getting used to fielding a powerful fleet.
And a weak Roman navy means Milan isn't just limited to mischief on the Italian peninsula.
I've cast a butterfly net over the New World to keep things simpler. I don't know that much about pre-contact native peoples, and to be honest it's not a subject I'm interested in. Obviously contact and post-contact will go differently, because of the different Old World players, but if some Arletians had somehow made it to Tenochtitlan in 1510 they would've met Montezuma II.
I do have plans for far east countries, but I'm saving it for either during, or more likely, post-Time of Troubles. I try to spread out major events, since I don't like it on an aesthetic level to have say 8 major events take place in the 1530s, but only 1 in the 1540s.
And there's also not much going on now, unless you find this interesting:
Number of Japanese Daimyos per year:
1530: 137
1531: 139
1532: 135
1533: 142
1534: 140
1535: 144
1536: 146
1537: 0, as undead zombie horde of Kublai Khan and Mongols has risen out of the China Sea to put Japan out of my misery.
Actually, that's a cool idea. Can I do that or would it be considered ASB?
Succeeding is another matter. For perspective on trying it now ITTL, imagine the OTL Gallipoli campaign, but replace the Turkish batteries with modern 12in and 6in guns and crews to match. Stationing the Imperial Fleet off Carthage-Malta-Trapani-Messina is an idea, but the Romans are very very touchy about the security of the Aegean Basin. The last time it was exposed to naval attack, the Black Day happened. And Milan, the main (really the only at the moment) naval threat to Rhomania, has ports on the Adriatic. Yes, the bulk of its ships are in Liguria, but if the Imperial fleet split off vessels to secure the Adriatic as well, it would be too weak to hold the west against the Milanese fleet from Genoa.
Now if the Venetians fully went at it, they could potentially shut down the Adriatic, but even though it's Venetia now, Constantinople equally dislikes the idea of that city getting used to fielding a powerful fleet.
And a weak Roman navy means Milan isn't just limited to mischief on the Italian peninsula.
I've cast a butterfly net over the New World to keep things simpler. I don't know that much about pre-contact native peoples, and to be honest it's not a subject I'm interested in. Obviously contact and post-contact will go differently, because of the different Old World players, but if some Arletians had somehow made it to Tenochtitlan in 1510 they would've met Montezuma II.
I do have plans for far east countries, but I'm saving it for either during, or more likely, post-Time of Troubles. I try to spread out major events, since I don't like it on an aesthetic level to have say 8 major events take place in the 1530s, but only 1 in the 1540s.
And there's also not much going on now, unless you find this interesting:
Number of Japanese Daimyos per year:
1530: 137
1531: 139
1532: 135
1533: 142
1534: 140
1535: 144
1536: 146
1537: 0, as undead zombie horde of Kublai Khan and Mongols has risen out of the China Sea to put Japan out of my misery.
Actually, that's a cool idea. Can I do that or would it be considered ASB?
1537: 0, as undead zombie horde of Kublai Khan and Mongols has risen out of the China Sea to put Japan out of my misery.
Actually, that's a cool idea. Can I do that or would it be considered ASB?
well you can try to have Tieh China put japan out of its misery.
Razgriz 2K9
Banned
Yeah, I think that would be the closest alternate to Evil Chinese Mongol Zombies...
...I think there was a trope somewhere I dunno.
How long will it take (estimated) to restore the Roman Navy to it's pre-Earthquake Strength? And would it be safe to just keep the remnants close to the Aegean and around the parts of the Black Sea around Constantinople?
...I think there was a trope somewhere I dunno.
How long will it take (estimated) to restore the Roman Navy to it's pre-Earthquake Strength? And would it be safe to just keep the remnants close to the Aegean and around the parts of the Black Sea around Constantinople?
I think it was said 1545 "at the earliest" (so no chance in hell).
And it's safe? absolutely not. But fortunately the only naval threat is Milan (whose strenght can make things bad around Italy, but the Aegean Sea is another deal). In the black sea relationship with the other Orthodox powers is at an historic low, but the romans don't need to worry about them (So at worst the romans could pull all of their naval forces from there.
About Japan: With a strong Tieh China, I doubt even a united Japan can pose a threat to East Asia. Maybe instead of a secluded nation like OTL, it becomes active in trade instead. Have Westerners reached Japan yet?
Evilprodigy
Donor
The Incans would far extremely better than OTL just because of the time, the only reason the Spanish were able to take it IOTL was because it had, quite litterally, just finished a civil war that made the country an absolute shithole with very little in the way of armed protection. Give them a decade and you wont have a hundred or so random Spaniards being able to conquor them, hell they probably wouldn't make it past the border.
As for the Aztecs it also has to do with timing, IOTL the Spanish arrived during the rule of someone who is widely considered weak willed and indecisive (though I am unsure if that is true), the empire had also just finished conquoring a significant amount of territory and people, who caused the Aztec military to be thinly spread out and, when the Spanish arrived, immediatly revolted and added thousands of native soldiers to the Conquistadors. Also Montezuma invited into his palace armed soldiers, that isn't exactly something smart and the effect that kind of thing had was immense in breaking Aztec moral.
Japanese isolationism was more or less innevitable by this point, Sakoku was an idea in Japan similar to Humanism in the Wetsern World Reneissance, an all permiating ideal amongst the elite but the peasants don't care. It was basically inevitable that whoever united Japan, no matter who, would cut the place off from the world.
I think people might accuse you of being Peter Jackson with the whole green ghosts from the sea thingNumber of Japanese Daimyos per year:
1530: 137
1531: 139
1532: 135
1533: 142
1534: 140
1535: 144
1536: 146
1537: 0, as undead zombie horde of Kublai Khan and Mongols has risen out of the China Sea to put Japan out of my misery.
Actually, that's a cool idea. Can I do that or would it be considered ASB?
Why so?
Looking for more information here, since I tend to hate the term "inevitable" - but some things are considerably harder to change than others.
Evilprodigy
Donor
It's a cultural trend Japan had been having since even before the Sengoku Period started. Japan was getting sick and tired of dealing with the rest of the world, especially considering by the time the country was united the place was exhausted and tired of war. Isolation allowed Japan to flourish and rebuild but you can't just remove that kind of thing.
It is kind of like how the USA entered into a sort of Isolation after WWI but way more serious, since the Sengoku Period lasted for so long and all of the fighting was on Japan.
But why couldn't Japan pursue something like British style isolationism, which is to say, trade and stuff go on without the restrictions (well, most of them) but Japan treats anything beyond the protection of the (IJN?) as "let them bicker, while we profit."
Evilprodigy
Donor
The Japanese did trade during Isolation, they traded with the Chinese, Koreans, and Ryukyu Islands. All three of those places also had embassies in Edo and the Japanese gave tribute to China,
They also allowed trade with Portugal and the Netherlands, though only in Dejima (Took me forever to find that BTW)
It should also be noted that Isolationism is not nearly as thick as you would think, the Japanese had a whole thing called Rangaku, which means "Dutch Learning" and was where the Japanese learned of things like medicine, art, etc. This kind of cultural exchange would be impossible if the Japanese did not allow a bit of interaction between themselves and the outside world.
Yes, but there's a big difference between "a bit of interaction" and overseas commerce being a big thing.
Unlike China, Japan doesn't have everything it conceivably needs or wants within its own borders.
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