An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
- Start date
Yeah, Triune America definitely throws a wrench in Australia being colonized early, although it's not like any European power needs to colonize the island/continent this early (1640 vs late 18th/19th century) as Nusantara and India are far more lucrative places for colonies or vassal subjects than an isolated region populated by dangerous fauna.
I just think that the Triunes have the political conditions necessary to have a penal colony in Australia given enough time.
Perhaps the collapse of the Wu in Australia will make a good case for the Aboriginals in the Northern Coast being slightly more advanced thanks to cultural mixing between the Chinese and the Aboriginals, gaining access to new crops, tools, and technology, transforming them into a more agrarian society.
Small farming communities don't really seem that unrealistic in the area, using cultivated staple crops in conjunction with local bush foods used by the Aboriginals.
Evilprodigy
Donor
Why? There's nothing there of value for a colonial power to put the effort towards getting.
Speaking of Australia and the Wu, I wonder what effect Wu colonization, development, and collapse had on the demographics of Australia - I'd imagine the Aboriginal population is higher than OTL. If it is, that combined with continuous low-level contact with Indonesia, and through that, the Romans, Spanish, Zeng, and Triunes, might spur the development of native states? Or at least enough to make protectorates more valuable than settler colonies? Just spitballing ways that TTL can see more indigenous cultures survive and grow.
Also because such continuous contact might result in Maori navigators and mercenaries playing a role in the wider Age of Sail, which is just an awesome concept.
Also because such continuous contact might result in Maori navigators and mercenaries playing a role in the wider Age of Sail, which is just an awesome concept.
We do have to mention that the Aboriginal population ITTL might not be that large as it seems because of the devastating impact of virgin-field epidemics that the Wu brought to the native population during their colonization of Australia. Still, it's probably been 200-300 years since their landfall, so the population is probably bouncing back from the epidemic lows, so it's possible that the population is around OTL numbers or slightly exceeds it by the 1600s. It'd be enough for small villages to prop up, in my opinion, especially in the north.
It's a tantalizing prospect to see Aboriginals become exposed to the wider world thanks to the Wu, with small statelets or farming villages trading with Nusantarans for tools or foodstuffs. They'd be the extreme periphery of the much larger trade network though, so I don't see Romans or Latins trading with them and would only make contact in an colonial expedition akin to James Cook. With the growing population and increased interest in trade from island Nusantarans, I could see state formation happening eventually, but centralized native states would take centuries to happen without increased trade.
Also, I am immediately reminded of Lands of Red and Gold when it comes to Aboriginal agriculture because it's very possible that the Northern Australians are cultivating native bush-tucker plants once they have a hold of staples like rice, plantains/bananas, taro, and yams, so that further improves food availability. Not to mention they could possess animals from the Chinese such as pigs, chickens, beef, or goats/sheep. Still, this form of agriculture might only be seen in the North as the Southern Australians around OTL NSW/Victoria might continue native fire-stick farming while central Australians continue hunter-gatherer practices in the desert areas. That could certainly change though as Wu agriculture and technology continues to spread through Australia, sadly wiping out any form of native agricultural practices that maintained the natural Australian ecosystem (Deforestation might already be a factor in Northern Australia).
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Except a few colonies to grow foodstuffs for the East Indies.
But why? It's not like Nusantara is in need for increased foodstuffs when their rice cultivation is one of the most productive in the world, while most of the native states or colonies aren't exploited enough to severely disrupt food supply. Not to mention, Pyrgos is a major food exporter so you can just buy sacks of rice, fish, and other foodstuffs relatively easily.
So far the Europeans have colonies that are far more productive and valuable than Australia, which isn't even fully explored or mapped yet so they either have to lose some colonial territory or need Australia as a military or economic base to project power in Asia besides dominating the native Nusantaran states (which the Romans have the most influence) to justify the cost in subjugating the Aboriginals (who are more advanced and are resistant to Old World diseases thanks to the Wu) and developing infrastructure.
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Evilprodigy
Donor
In Northern Australia?
Yeah I don't see that ever happening, even if the East Indies need to import food.
Yep, pretty much keep anyone from trying to bypass them in the ocean carrying trade, and the lucrative toll and supply income.
Not to mention they haven't taken otl mindanao province in ttl heraklian islands.
This right here. The Phantom Fleet the Spanish snuck by is going to have the colonial office shitting sideways, and they will do what they can lock down any unsecured flank they can.
I still think the spanish expedition will only hinder them more as it opened the eyes to the Romans how vulnerable they really are out there. The Romans are going to have to deal with the stronger indigenous powers, that they had to uplift a bit. And now with the power of the ship lords hemmed, serious fleet investments will be needed after all the scandals are cleared and the green boats broken up.
Saying all that, really Roman focus is going to be on the Ottomans before any real moves East should be made beyond shifting some squadrons.
I frankly see a Roman Australia as the most likely in the long run. Not only is there the aforementioned aspect of security/resource denial to potential colonial competitors in Indonesia, but if I recall there was some trade contact between the Romans and pre-collapse Southern Wu. As such, they already know that there are some resources to be found there, which may well include gold - even if the larger South Wu state is gone, I don't reckon that the Austro-Chinese have abandoned a high cultural value for gold and forgotten metallurgy.
Evilprodigy
Donor
If you were looking at an OTL world map of the 1630s and did not know what came next then this line of thinking would say the Dutch would colonize Australia. Not only did they have significant presence in the East Indies but they were actively mapping the continent. And yet they didn't. It remained an uninteresting continent to Europeans until 1788 and only became interesting because America became independent.
We have a long long time before anyone even considers trying to bother with colonizing something so out of the way as Australia.
I feel this isn't directly comparable on the simple basis that a sedentary urban group already has settled in Australia (and probably still remains in at least a reduced state), and outside powers have been able to trade with them for resources. Rather than essentially being an empty land in terms of resource production as per OTL, there is already known economic utility in controlling the continent beyond the strategic and opportunistic aspects that are roughly the same as in OTL.
Evilprodigy
Donor
Pretty sure the last mention of Australia detailed a total societal collapse. Sure it may be a bit more developed but frankly it's still analogous to OTL. And regardless it doesn't invalidate my point. Australia was colonized in 1788. A hundred and fifty years beyond our current point. Speculation that far ahead is pointless, because the situation can change so quickly.
I'm not convinced that Europeans are going to establish colonies on the continent anytime soon, especially during the 17th century. Australia practically sits at the far edge of the world and of the vital trade routes that flow through most of Afro-Eurasia and Terranova while there's a lack of urbanized cities or towns in which Romans or Latins can interact with. Even if there was more information on the continent than OTL, I still think it's still unlikely that they are going to divert resources from more established and profitable colonies unless pushed to do so by established colonial competition, so it's a matter of who takes the first step.
Not to mention that the Aboriginals are probably just as resistant to Old World diseases thanks to the Wu, despite having a comparable or slightly higher population compared to OTL. This makes colonization even more difficult for any European when they have to deal with hostile wildlife, foreign flora, and Aboriginal tribes and villages that won't fall to disease and fashion Chinese or Nusantaran metal weapons instead of stone. Undoubtedly they would either need to invest far more money and manpower towards pacifying the continent than the British did OTL.
An Australia that has native states under European influence seems most likely, although full colonization is also on the cards, albeit a rarer outcome, in my opinion. If the latter is the case, then any European would probably treat an Australian colony as a penal backwater, at least until they discover the rich mineral wealth of the continent.
Triune Australia is still my go-to because they can easily replicate the conditions that Britain faced OTL (large amounts of criminals, peasants, political prisoners, and they might lose Bengal or even ITTL America during a future Triune war). Just send hordes of those rowdy Northumbrians, Welsh, and Irish towards that continent as free convict labor.
Alternatively, I could see the Romans use Australia as a means to displace the local Arab population that still exists in Syria, Egypt, and the rest of the Levant if they ever have a colony there (Either forcefully or make concessions to Arabs to settle there so they can keep them out sight and out of mind).
Not to mention that the Aboriginals are probably just as resistant to Old World diseases thanks to the Wu, despite having a comparable or slightly higher population compared to OTL. This makes colonization even more difficult for any European when they have to deal with hostile wildlife, foreign flora, and Aboriginal tribes and villages that won't fall to disease and fashion Chinese or Nusantaran metal weapons instead of stone. Undoubtedly they would either need to invest far more money and manpower towards pacifying the continent than the British did OTL.
An Australia that has native states under European influence seems most likely, although full colonization is also on the cards, albeit a rarer outcome, in my opinion. If the latter is the case, then any European would probably treat an Australian colony as a penal backwater, at least until they discover the rich mineral wealth of the continent.
Triune Australia is still my go-to because they can easily replicate the conditions that Britain faced OTL (large amounts of criminals, peasants, political prisoners, and they might lose Bengal or even ITTL America during a future Triune war). Just send hordes of those rowdy Northumbrians, Welsh, and Irish towards that continent as free convict labor.
Alternatively, I could see the Romans use Australia as a means to displace the local Arab population that still exists in Syria, Egypt, and the rest of the Levant if they ever have a colony there (Either forcefully or make concessions to Arabs to settle there so they can keep them out sight and out of mind).