America 'IS the World'

RealityX · Jun 3, 2009

I am thinking of creating a time line along this central premise - kind of an 'America is the World' concept

The US does not enter ww2 until one of it's ocean liners is destroyed by a German submarine in port on the eastern seaboard, this is after Britain's defeat. This means Japan faces more of the US army. The world situation looks worse for the US who entered the war late than in OTL, however with nuclear weapons, the US is the only country left who can put up a fight against the Axis powers and using mass produced nuclear weapons destroys the axis's will to fight. Occupation forces occupy loosely the entire globe over the next 10 years. In 1963 a declaration is made that the US shall be the succesor to the leauge of nations and as such the new title of the first one world nation is to be simply 'The United States'

Would this world in 2009 be better than the one we have now? If so why? If not why?

lothaw · Jun 3, 2009

So basiclly we have to nuke Europe to oblivion to free it? Yeah I can see some hard feelings down the road.

danwild6 · Jun 3, 2009

We probaly only have to nuke Germany. And I can't see Germany holding much of a grudge considering they started it and the crimes they committed throughout it.

Dure · Jun 3, 2009

Please move this to ASB.

BlackWave · Jun 3, 2009

Dure said:
Please move this to ASB.

Seconded.

I mean, you do realise that America has a limited number of men?

RealityX · Jun 3, 2009

If the US was mobilized, and with all major governments surrendering via potential onslaught of nuclear attack, there is no reason this scenario is not possible. Unless you consider nuclear weapons magic and ASB worthy. Nazi Germany managed to subdue Europe with conventional weapons and a smaller population base than the US. There is no reason why this scenario is not plausible. The world is already war-torn and the remaining powers severely weakened, the US just has to pick up the pieces so to speak through use of intimidation and super weapons.

DAv · Jun 3, 2009

RealityX said:
If the US was mobilized, and with all major governments surrendering via potential onslaught of nuclear attack, there is no reason this scenario is not possible. Unless you consider nuclear weapons magic and ASB worthy. Nazi Germany managed to subdue Europe with conventional weapons and a smaller population base than the US. There is no reason why this scenario is not plausible. The world is already war-torn and the remaining powers severely weakened, the US just has to pick up the pieces so to speak through use of intimidation and super weapons.

Actually, they first have to get the bombs onto planes, fly them over the Atlantic, right into the heart of Germany itself and then strike at Berlin and other major territories, all the while experiencing heavy resistance and low fuel that effectively makes the bombing a suicide run. And then you have the scenario of Germany building its own bombs as a counter...

Sir Scott · Jun 3, 2009

Dure said:
Please move this to ASB.

Thirded

RealityX said:
If the US was mobilized, and with all major governments surrendering via potential onslaught of nuclear attack, there is no reason this scenario is not possible. Unless you consider nuclear weapons magic and ASB worthy. Nazi Germany managed to subdue Europe with conventional weapons and a smaller population base than the US. There is no reason why this scenario is not plausible. The world is already war-torn and the remaining powers severely weakened, the US just has to pick up the pieces so to speak through use of intimidation and super weapons.

Im going to streight up suggest that you are one of two things

1) You have no knowledge of the second world war , Nuclear weapons , or US political History
2) You are trolling

Frankly im leaning towards the later here. The US would not , and could not simply threaten the world.

RealityX · Jun 3, 2009

DAv said:
Actually, they first have to get the bombs onto planes, fly them over the Atlantic, right into the heart of Germany itself and then strike at Berlin and other major territories, all the while experiencing heavy resistance and low fuel that effectively makes the bombing a suicide run. And then you have the scenario of Germany building its own bombs as a counter...

I seem to remember Hitler dismissed the idea of nuclear weapons as 'Jewish science' and discontinued the research but... hmm... All I am really saying in this thread is that yes an advanced nation of this world could have conquered the world during ww2 with the proper use of nuclear weapons. I guess It just seems so inconceivable with the current world situation, but right after ww2 as the sole possesor of nukes the US could have imposed it's will on the world permanently.

RealityX · Jun 3, 2009

Sir Scott said:
Thirded

Im going to streight up suggest that you are one of two things

1) You have no knowledge of the second world war , Nuclear weapons , or US political History
2) You are trolling

Frankly im leaning towards the later here. The US would not , and could not simply threaten the world.

lol... I guess the Soviets, Nazi's and the Japanese couldn't threaten 'the WORLD' as well then. After all nothing can really change right?

When a nation is afraid, fascism, and other bold plans, emerge naturally as a defensive reaction to an outside threat. Moderate Democracy does not hold out well under attack, OTL the US adopted many fascistic policies (like the draft) to combat Nazism.

danwild6 · Jun 3, 2009

The US could establish global hegemony over the world under this scenario. Simply put if there is no Soviet Union then who could possibly compete with America? There are some issues though.

For one Robert Goddard has to be funded equivalently to the A-bomb because I doubt that the B-36 and/or X-35 could be suffiecent platforms for nuclear delivery.

Dathi THorfinnsson · Jun 3, 2009

danwild6 said:
The US could establish global hegemony over the world under this scenario. Simply put if there is no Soviet Union then who could possibly compete with America? There are some issues though.

For one Robert Goddard has to be funded equivalently to the A-bomb because I doubt that the B-36 and/or X-35 could be suffiecent platforms for nuclear delivery.

But global hegemony is a very different thing from 'the US is the world'. Would the US WANT 1 billion Indians voting in US elections? I doubt it.

RealityX · Jun 3, 2009

Dathi THorfinnsson said:
But global hegemony is a very different thing from 'the US is the world'. Would the US WANT 1 billion Indians voting in US elections? I doubt it.

Well I was thinking of a two tiered system where North America is the USA and the rest of the world is the US. The US would be subservient to the USA for say 100 years and then phased out to have a single US as the world state. So effectively there would be an American empire ruling the world relatively light-handedly. So people native to the USA (Canada included) are first class citizens and those in the rest of the world are second class citizens (with exceptions for the highly influential/rich/intelligent). At the end of the 'reconstruction' 50-100 year period the USA would give full power to the US and dissolve. How does this answer your question ^^

Dungeon Dwelling Dragon · Jun 3, 2009

Wait, so both the Soviet Union and the British are knocked out of the war? I assume Britain was starved to death, which would take some time. And the Soviet Union collapses, perhaps because the Nazi are nicer to the soviet ethnic minorities for some reason?

Hard to see how this scenario comes about, but assuming that the United States still comes up with the nuclear bomb first, I suppose if the U.S. absolutely had to / wanted to, it could invade Greenland, hop to Iceland, Invade Ireland, then use it as a staging base to Invade / Liberate England or get nuke-armed bombers over germany.

I'd be a bloody affair. But I doubt the Kriegsmarine's ability to keep the U.S. out of Ireland, or the Irish's ability or desire to repel a U.S. Invasion.

Assuming it could still keep the Japanese at bay in the East. And I'd assume the U.S. would be more worried about the Germans getting the bomb than the Japanese, so go that route first.

Of course, I'd assume the Canadians, at least, are still fighting with us. If not the South Africans, and Australians. And maybe we could squeeze something more out of the Latin American nations, in such a scary scenario as well.

Bill Cameron · Jun 4, 2009

This is either ASB or a trolling attempt.

DAv · Jun 4, 2009

RealityX said:
I seem to remember Hitler dismissed the idea of nuclear weapons as 'Jewish science' and discontinued the research but... hmm... All I am really saying in this thread is that yes an advanced nation of this world could have conquered the world during ww2 with the proper use of nuclear weapons. I guess It just seems so inconceivable with the current world situation, but right after ww2 as the sole possesor of nukes the US could have imposed it's will on the world permanently.

No. Because the moment the US has nukes, every last nation on Earth is going to be after them as well, regardless of being 'Jew science' or not. And their is the limit of bombing range I mentioned earlier, the US has to get to Germany in order to strike and how much of a chance do you think they'll honestly have with the German Air Force piling on top of them? The US has to get one plane through to Berlin through the Luftwaffe and the anti-air defences throughout Europe. It is an ASB scenario.

The Red · Jun 4, 2009

Also what happened to Russia,surely Britian and Russia could defeat Germany alone?

perfectgeneral · Jun 4, 2009

How did the USA get ahead of German in nuclear research? America lacks the Tube Alloys research due to a successful <choke> Sealion

, while Germany has gained whatever Tube Alloys research they capture.

The Red · Jun 4, 2009

perfectgeneral said:
How did the USA get ahead of German in nuclear research? America lacks the Tube Alloys research due to a successful <choke> Sealion , while Germany has gained whatever Tube Alloys research they capture.

The problem with your argument is that it is a logical one and thus has no place in this scenario!

Gingerdave · Jun 4, 2009

RealityX said:
The US does not enter ww2 until one of it's ocean liners is destroyed by a German submarine in port on the eastern seaboard, this is after Britain's defeat.

So, the UK has been defeated, and the US has not declared war on Nazi Germany.

Why would a German sub captain destroy a US ship and risk starting a war?

If the UK's defeated, there's no need for commerce raiding.

ASB, I think.