Alternate wives for Edward VIII?

[Dan1988]

So, I'm currently in the research stage of a TL project I'm working on for the interwar period, with multiple PODs scattered around the place, and one of them hinges on one person in particular - Edward VIII. Now, most of us are familiar with his saga with Wallis Simpson and how his intent on marrying her instead of someone "suitable" destroyed his position in the UK, leading to his abdication and all that resulted, including a stint as Governor of the Bahamas.

But, what if he never crossed paths with Mrs. Simpson in the first place? What if he crossed paths with someone who was similar in some ways to Mrs. Simpson without it being her?

Originally, I thought a good idea would be Frederica of Hannover, since I knew of her reputation in Greece, until I realized the age gap was considerable - and, sure enough, her parents had the same concern. So now, I turn it over to you guys - what other possible contenders, in the 1920s and 1930s, could be similar to Frederica (bonus points if also, at least in part, similar to Wallis) without the age gap problem?

 

[Wendell]

What fascinates me about Edward VIII is that he was very nearly laid to rest in the same cemetery as Betsy Patterson Bonaparte and John Wilkes Booth.

 

[Feunoyr]

Grand Duchess Olga, or her younger sister Tatiana, would have been serious options for Edward VIII if they had survived the revolution.

 

[Dan1988]

What fascinates me about Edward VIII is that he was very nearly lad t rest in the same cemetery as Betsy Patterson Bonaparte and John Wilkes Booth.

That would have been an interesting coincidence, if that worked out.

Grand Duchess Olga, or her younger sister Tatiana, would have been serious options for Edward VIII if they had survived the revolution.

Please, tell me more; I'm now intrigued.

 

[Feunoyr]

Please, tell me more; I'm now intrigued.

House Romanov was related by blood to the British royal family (the Dowager Empress, mother of Nicholas II, and the Dowager Queen, mother of George V, were sisters and very close; they would probably have looked favourably on the union of their grandchildren), the two countries were allies and the two princesses were close to the age of the Prince of Wales. A Romanov-Windsor marriage would have been a wonderful symbol of unity between the Russian and British empires, had circumstances been different...

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Grand Duchess Olga, or her younger sister Tatiana, would have been serious options for Edward VIII if they had survived the revolution.

Absolutely no chance whatsoever

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

So, I'm currently in the research stage of a TL project I'm working on for the interwar period, with multiple PODs scattered around the place, and one of them hinges on one person in particular - Edward VIII. Now, most of us are familiar with his saga with Wallis Simpson and how his intent on marrying her instead of someone "suitable" destroyed his position in the UK, leading to his abdication and all that resulted, including a stint as Governor of the Bahamas.

But, what if he never crossed paths with Mrs. Simpson in the first place? What if he crossed paths with someone who was similar in some ways to Mrs. Simpson without it being her?

Originally, I thought a good idea would be Frederica of Hannover, since I knew of her reputation in Greece, until I realized the age gap was considerable - and, sure enough, her parents had the same concern. So now, I turn it over to you guys - what other possible contenders, in the 1920s and 1930s, could be similar to Frederica (bonus points if also, at least in part, similar to Wallis) without the age gap problem?

The most likely royal candidates were from Sweden and Greece:

Sweden - Princess Ingrid (on paper the best candidate by virtue of being half British, ended up marrying the future King of Denmark in 1935), Martha or her sister Astrid (eventually Crown Princess of Norway and Queen of Belgium) but those two were married by the end of the 1920s, so the Prince of Wales would need to be fast.

Greece -Margarita, Theodora, Cecile, Sophia - daughters of Prince Andrew and Princess Alice of Battenberg and sisters of Prince Philip. All married by 1931.
Or the three daughters of Prince Nicholas and Grand Duchess Elena - Olga, Elisabeth and Marina, who eventually married the Prince of Wales's brothr the Duke of Kent.

Of course in 1917, King George V announced to the Privy Council his intention to allow his children to marry British subjects rather than foreign royalty and therefore this opened up a whole new layer of potential spouses for his children.

 

[Dan1988]

The most likely royal candidates were from Sweden and Greece:

Sweden - Princess Ingrid (on paper the best candidate by virtue of being half British, ended up marrying the future King of Denmark in 1935), Martha or her sister Astrid (eventually Crown Princess of Norway and Queen of Belgium) but those two were married by the end of the 1920s, so the Prince of Wales would need to be fast.

Greece -Margarita, Theodora, Cecile, Sophia - daughters of Prince Andrew and Princess Alice of Battenberg and sisters of Prince Philip. All married by 1931.
Or the three daughters of Prince Nicholas and Grand Duchess Elena - Olga, Elisabeth and Marina, who eventually married the Prince of Wales's brothr the Duke of Kent.

Hmm, some interesting ideas there. Ingrid seems to be a bit too young and has a similar age gap issue as Frederica, so Astrid could work better if Bertie acted fast enough (and could prevent her having that infamous road accident that led to her death).

Of course in 1917, King George V announced to the Privy Council his intention to allow his children to marry British subjects rather than foreign royalty and therefore this opened up a whole new layer of potential spouses for his children.

That I did not know about. OTOH I would assume that even if he did that, the expectation would still be traditional (at least before Mrs. Simpson entered the picture)

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Hmm, some interesting ideas there. Ingrid seems to be a bit too young and has a similar age gap issue as Frederica, so Astrid could work better if Bertie acted fast enough (and could prevent her having that infamous road accident that led to her death).



That I did not know about. OTOH I would assume that even if he did that, the expectation would still be traditional (at least before Mrs. Simpson entered the picture)

In terms of the age difference, I don’t know what you consider to be an appropriate age gap but I do not consider it was a big problem at this time in history, especially when the bridegroom in question was a future King/Emperor. For example there was an 10 year age difference between Ingrid of Sweden and her eventual husband the future Frederik IX of Denmark. There was 17 years age difference between Frederica and her eventual husband Paul of Greece. Age differences were less important in those days and I do not believe for a second the Duke and Duchess of Brunswick were worried about age difference if it meant their daughter was going to become a Queen/Empress, they certainly overcome it to see their daughter become future Queen of Greece.

When King George V made his decision about his children marrying British subjects, he of course meant into the aristocracy – his only daughter married the heir to a fabulously wealthy Earldom and his sons the Dukes of York and Gloucester married the daughters of a Scottish Earl and Duke. Only the Duke of Kent married a foreign royal, Marina of Greece.

You can disregard all the nonsense about a Russian marriage. This is one of those bizarre ideas that always pops up here without any evidence whatsoever and ignores one very basic but fundamental fact - King George V and Queen Mary were brutally aware of the consequences of haemophilia. They were also aware that Tsarevich Alexei was a sufferer. They would have known that the daughters of Nicholas and Alexandra were all potential carriers.

The King and Queen were very familiar with haemophilia and its ramifications. The King’s uncle Leopold had been the original sufferer in the family. His daughter Alice, married Queen Mary’s brother – both of their sons were believed to haemophiliacs and died young.

Lots of other relatives also suffered and died from the disease or passed it on. King George and Queen Mary would have seen the havoc it caused in Russia and Spain.

Why oh why would anyone seriously think that King George and Queen Mary would risk potentially destroying the future of their dynasty by allowing their son and heir to marry anyone someone who was a potential carrier????

On a different note, heirs to the British throne or indeed British princes generally had not made grand dynastic marriages for generations – you’d have to go back to someone like Charles II’s marriage to Catherine of Braganza to identify a truly politically important and advantageous marriage. Most British Kings and princes subsequently married minor German princesses from relatively modest backgrounds.

 

[Dan1988]

In terms of the age difference, I don’t know what you consider to be an appropriate age gap but I do not consider it was a big problem at this time in history, especially when the bridegroom in question was a future King/Emperor. For example there was an 10 year age difference between Ingrid of Sweden and her eventual husband the future Frederik IX of Denmark. There was 17 years age difference between Frederica and her eventual husband Paul of Greece. Age differences were less important in those days and I do not believe for a second the Duke and Duchess of Brunswick were worried about age difference if it meant their daughter was going to become a Queen/Empress, they certainly overcome it to see their daughter become future Queen of Greece.

I was thinking of this blurb from Wiki:

In 1934, Adolf Hitler, in his ambition to link the British and German royal houses, asked for Frederica's parents to arrange for the marriage of their seventeen-year-old daughter to the Prince of Wales.[4][5] In her memoirs, Frederica's mother described that she and her husband were "shattered" and such a possibility "had never entered our minds".[6] [. . .] Moreover, the age difference was too great (the Prince of Wales was twenty-two years Frederica's senior), and her parents were unwilling to "put any such pressure" on their daughter.[6]

So I consider the 22-year gap as something to be avoided; the smaller the age gap the better. In Ingrid's case, although she's 7 years older than Frederica, the gap is still a bit too wide. Maybe I'm reading current sensitivities to this sort of thing into it, and maybe Ingrid could be a better match for Edward VIII, but, . . .

Ah, well, I don't know. OK, I'll also keep Ingrid in mind, even though I was initially thinking "the closer to Bertie's birthdate, the better".

When King George V made his decision about his children marrying British subjects, he of course meant into the aristocracy – his only daughter married the heir to a fabulously wealthy Earldom and his sons the Dukes of York and Gloucester married the daughters of a Scottish Earl and Duke. Only the Duke of Kent married a foreign royal, Marina of Greece.

That makes a lot of sense, particularly considering attitudes from WW1 and after.

You can disregard all the nonsense about a Russian marriage. This is one of those bizarre ideas that always pops up here without any evidence whatsoever and ignores one very basic but fundamental fact - King George V and Queen Mary were brutally aware of the consequences of haemophilia. They were also aware that Tsarevich Alexei was a sufferer. They would have known that the daughters of Nicholas and Alexandra were all potential carriers.

The King and Queen were very familiar with haemophilia and its ramifications. The King’s uncle Leopold had been the original sufferer in the family. His daughter Alice, married Queen Mary’s brother – both of their sons were believed to haemophiliacs and died young.

Lots of other relatives also suffered and died from the disease or passed it on. King George and Queen Mary would have seen the havoc it caused in Russia and Spain.

Why oh why would anyone seriously think that King George and Queen Mary would risk potentially destroying the future of their dynasty by allowing their son and heir to marry anyone someone who was a potential carrier????

Thank you . That is such a great relief.

On a different note, heirs to the British throne or indeed British princes generally had not made grand dynastic marriages for generations – you’d have to go back to someone like Charles II’s marriage to Catherine of Braganza to identify a truly politically important and advantageous marriage. Most British Kings and princes subsequently married minor German princesses from relatively modest backgrounds.

Indeed, which is why I find your suggestions very intriguing. Even better if it's with one of Britain's long-standing allies.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

I was thinking of this blurb from Wiki:


So I consider the 22-year gap as something to be avoided; the smaller the age gap the better. In Ingrid's case, although she's 7 years older than Frederica, the gap is still a bit too wide. Maybe I'm reading current sensitivities to this sort of thing into it, and maybe Ingrid could be a better match for Edward VIII, but, . . .

Ah, well, I don't know. OK, I'll also keep Ingrid in mind, even though I was initially thinking "the closer to Bertie's birthdate, the better".



That makes a lot of sense, particularly considering attitudes from WW1 and after.



Thank you . That is such a great relief.



Indeed, which is why I find your suggestions very intriguing. Even better if it's with one of Britain's long-standing allies.

The future Edward VIII was known within the family as "David". His younger brother Albert, Duke of York (and future George VI and father of Queen Elizabeth II) was known as Bertie.

 

[Dan1988]

The future Edward VIII was known within the family as "David". His younger brother Albert, Duke of York (and future George VI and father of Queen Elizabeth II) was known as Bertie.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea magna culpa, . . . .

My apologies. I forgot about all that. I only really knew them by their names by which they were crowned with, so when it comes to family nicknames and all that I am honestly confused and lost.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Ah, well, I don't know. OK, I'll also keep Ingrid in mind, even though I was initially thinking "the closer to Bertie's birthdate, the better".

Indeed, which is why I find your suggestions very intriguing. Even better if it's with one of Britain's long-standing allies.

The press reported in 1932 that Ingrid and the future Edward VIII were engaged, it was a very popular match given her grandfather was the Duke of Connaught, Queen Victoria's only surviving son and the grand old man of the Royal Family.

The Lewiston Daily Sun - Google News Archive Search

I don't think a marriage between the heir apparent to the British throne in the 1930s and a princess of Greece or Sweden would be perceived as being part of a political alliance with an ally or prospective ally. Those days has passed. It would have simply been seen as the continuation of centuries of tradition that princes historically married suitable princesses. There was no political alliance between Denmark and the UK for example when the future King Edward VII married Alexandra of Denmark in 1863.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea magna culpa, . . . .

My apologies. I forgot about all that. I only really knew them by their names by which they were crowned with, so when it comes to family nicknames and all that I am honestly confused and lost.

Its absolutely fine and I think you would be better off just sticking to their public names, I personally hate when people on forums use royals personal nicknames. It excludes people who may not know them all.

 

[Dan1988]

The press reported in 1932 that Ingrid and the future Edward VIII were engaged, it was a very popular match given her grandfather was the Duke of Connaught, Queen Victoria's only surviving son and the grand old man of the Royal Family.

The Lewiston Daily Sun - Google News Archive Search

Hmm, that does sound interesting. Okay, game set and match; I'll take it.

I don't think a marriage between the heir apparent to the British throne in the 1930s and a princess of Greece or Sweden would be perceived as being part of a political alliance with an ally or prospective ally. Those days has passed. It would have simply been seen as the continuation of centuries of tradition that princes historically married suitable princesses. There was no political alliance between Denmark and the UK for example when the future King Edward VII married Alexandra of Denmark in 1863.

And fortunately, I was not thinking in terms of alliances, either. So it all works out.

 

[Dan1988]

Its absolutely fine and I think you would be better off just sticking to their public names, I personally hate when people on forums use royals personal nicknames. It excludes people who may not know them all.

Thank you. Makes it easier for me to stick to public names.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Hmm, that does sound interesting. Okay, game set and match; I'll take it.



And fortunately, I was not thinking in terms of alliances, either. So it all works out.

One of the interesting twists you may want to introduce is that Ingrid had extraordinary difficulties carrying children to term. In reality she had three daughters, born in 1940 (the Queen of Denmark), 1944 (Princess Benedikte) and 1946 (the Queen of Greece) and numerous miscarriages from her marriage in 1935 and between her various pregnancies. In the case of her last pregnancy with the future Queen Anne Marie in 1946, she was bed bound for months as her doctors advised otherwise she would miscarry. After Queen Anne Marie's birth she was advised not to have any more children, which was the catalyst for the discussion in Denmark about allowing women to succeed to the throne.

There has long been suggestions that Edward VIII may have been sterile.

Assuming Ingrid and the future Edward VIII married in 1932/1933, it doesn't necessarily mean that Ingrid would produce a child swiftly, if at all. This may of course have resulted in the marriage facing difficulties. Even if Edward VIII had made the perfect royal match, it also doesn't necessarily mean that today we wouldn't still have Elizabeth II as our Queen.

 

[Dan1988]

Assuming Ingrid and the future Edward VIII married in 1932/1933, it doesn't necessarily mean that Ingrid would produce a child swiftly, if at all. This may of course have resulted in the marriage facing difficulties. Even if Edward VIII had made the perfect royal match, it also doesn't necessarily mean that today we wouldn't still have Elizabeth II as our Queen.

I'm starting to like this more and more.

In fact - would you mind if, at some point this week, I start PM'ing you about my TL project? I'm getting ideas I never thought I had for how this would work.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

I'm starting to like this more and more.

In fact - would you mind if, at some point this week, I start PM'ing you about my TL project? I'm getting ideas I never thought I had for how this would work.

sure happy to share any thoughts

 

[BlackDragon98]

House Romanov was related by blood to the British royal family (the Dowager Empress, mother of Nicholas II, and the Dowager Queen, mother of George V, were sisters and very close; they would probably have looked favourably on the union of their grandchildren), the two countries were allies and the two princesses were close to the age of the Prince of Wales. A Romanov-Windsor marriage would have been a wonderful symbol of unity between the Russian and British empires, had circumstances been different...

George V and Nicholas II could literally be mistaken for brother/twins in photos where they're standing side by side.