Alternate Standard Issue Rifle

Amit

I came upon something interesting today.

A thought came to me today, to dig up some information on self-repeating rifles and their development history. After poking around a bit, I came across this - http://www.sunblest.net/gun/Mann85.htm

It seems this gun was the inspiration of the M-1 Garand....it was invented in the 1880s, in Germany!

So what if, Germany adopts this weapon as a standard issue infantry rifle instead of the Gewehr 98. It was in the market early enough for WW1, but I am not sure the German officer culture would accept it. Perhaps WW2 is a better bet?

Any thoughts?
 

Kelenas

Well, in trench warfare it wouldn't make much of a difference on the attack, but on the defense the higher rate of fire might mean the German Army would inflict somewhat greater casualties on the British and French.

In maneuver warfare on the east front and during the early days of the western front the higher rate of fire would have a larger impact, although I think the somewhat small magazine size would mitigate that somewhat.

Overall, I don't think it would have changed much, not unless there are other changes as well.

- Kelenas
 

Dr. Luny

That isn't a semi-automatic rifle. The main similarity to the Garand seems to be the way the clip is loaded. It also appears to be an Austrian, not German gun.

What if the Germans adopted it? A marginally faster-firing gun isn't going to make much of a difference, and the cartridge it fired wasn't very good. I'd probably stick with the Mauser. Of course it would definitely effect the development of future weapons. Maybe the Germans invent an assault rifle earlier so they can stop using the crappy Austrian rounds. What would German machinegunes be firing in this case?
 

Amit

Seems like you are right Dr. Luny :eek:

But what if: Mannlicher does come up with a semi-automatic rifle in the 1890s or thereabouts? How would this have an effect on military tactics leading up to WW1? Would we necessarily see trench-warfare?
 

Kerblo

Pulling back rather than turning the bolt means less distortion of aim between each shot. This means there is less time between each shot and it is easier to adjust your aim. In the end this means a soldier can make two or three more well aimed shots per minute. It's not much of an advantage but an advantage nonetheless and could have turned the tide in a few engagements.
 

Longslide7

What about the Mondragón rifle ?

From Wikipedia

The Mondragón was the world's first[1] semi-automatic rifle, and was designed by Mexican general Manuel Mondragón. He began work in 1882 and patented the weapon in 1887. It was gas-operated with a cylinder and piston arrangement, now very familiar but unusual at the time, and rotating bolt, locked by lugs in helical grooves in the receiver; it was also possible to operate it as a simple straight-pull bolt action. The caliber was 7 mm (.284 in) Mauser with an 8-round box magazine; a trial LMG version had a 20-round box and provision for a bipod, like the BAR; the Mexican Army also used a 100-round drum magazine for a light machine gun variant produced in 1910.
 
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