Alternate Republic of China Air Force- ideas and discussion

[hjmartin70]

A vote is a terrible thing to waste.

Nobody voted yet?

Come on people, you still have more than 12 hours to vote...

I vote yes, considering the age of the Tu-22M and the fact that the whopping big bribe has to get spent on something.

BTW, enjoying this timeline both this thread and the alternate ROC Navy. Looking forward to the ROC Army thread.

 

[Shaby]

I'd say that they might get it from the Russians. Would they want to is another question. Tu-22 would require an exhaustive refit to make it compatible with the rest of the fleet IMHO. Would it be worth it?

 

[abc123]

I'd say that they might get it from the Russians. Would they want to is another question. Tu-22 would require an exhaustive refit to make it compatible with the rest of the fleet IMHO. Would it be worth it?

I know, there would be problems with communications equipment and with bomb/missile holds, but it's easier to integrate the missile on them than to build whole new aircraft... SRAM should be able to fit into internal weapons launcher of Tu-22M, and if not, perhaps the Russians will be willing to sell Kh-15 as well... Also, China allready has domestic cruise missile ( mid and long range ) under development, that should be able to be carried externally.

 

[abc123]

BTW, enjoying this timeline both this thread and the alternate ROC Navy. Looking forward to the ROC Army thread.

Thanks.

Your comments ( especially if praise ) mean a lot to me, as any AH.com writer can say...

 

[abc123]

30 billions of Soviet/Russian goods that China promised to buy in 1990 are in today's money about 55 billions USD.

Approximate prices of things that China might want:

1 battery of S-300- about 200 mil. USD

An-124- about 250 mil. USD

Tu-22M3- about 250 mil. USD

Kh-55 cruise missile- about 5 mil. USD

Kh-15 cruise missile- say 3 mil. USD

licence, development costs and transfer of technology of An-218- say 5 billion USD

licence, development costs and transfer of technology of An-74- say 3 billions USD

licence, development costs and transfer of technology of Tu-204- say 3 billions USD

S-300 PMU1 development costs- say 1 billion USD

Kolchuga passive sensor- about 75 mil. USD

I inflated the numbers for about 25% because the Russians will probably want to get as much as possible from Chinese.

 

[100Fathoms]

Sorry I'm too late to vote , but I think you're doing great ( and besides now your two TL mesh together . ) China gains more Technical expertise with another Nations Aerospace tech, and can retire the B-47 and Mirage IV with a intern solution until they can develop their Indigenous next-generation bomber.

 

[abc123]

Sorry I'm too late to vote , but I think you're doing great ( and besides now your two TL mesh together . ) China gains more Technical expertise with another Nations Aerospace tech, and can retire the B-47 and Mirage IV with a intern solution until they can develop their Indigenous next-generation bomber.

Not too late, I decided to extend the deadline for another 24 h, so if you have any suggestions, write them too...

 

[abc123]

China gains more Technical expertise with another Nations Aerospace tech, and can retire the B-47 and Mirage IV with a intern solution until they can develop their Indigenous next-generation bomber.

Yes, that's the overall goal.

 

[La Rouge Beret]

Go with the Tu - 22M as it allows China's indigenous electronic industry to gain further experience and improve their overall capabilities. It does make things harder from a logistical support POV, but at this stage the aviation industry within China should be mature enough to handle those issues.

 

[100Fathoms]

Go with the Tu - 22M as it allows China's indigenous electronic industry to gain further experience and improve their overall capabilities. It does make things harder from a logistical support POV, but at this stage the aviation industry within China should be mature enough to handle those issues.

I second this posters vote, always liked the Backfire all the way back to when I first read " Red Storm Rising . "

 

[abc123]

I agree. My reasoning that Russia will sell Tu-22M to China is because here they have much stronger China on it's doorstep, China at least 10 years more advanced than in OTL, so better to have good relations with them and earn some money ( and have a certain leverage on them by supplying them with spare parts ) than have them develop their own aircraft/buying it from the USA ( until now, USA sold to China everything they requested, so maybe they would sell them B-1 )- and there Russia would not have any leverage...

 

[AlternateHistoryFan]

Hi, abc! Thank you for continuing to support my althist idea, and now I get tod o the same for you!

Brilliant divergence point, firstly. As someone who bemoans the general lack of a sufficient ROCAF during the Sino-Japanese War, I'm glad to see a partially-victorious ROC ( which hopefully will move out from Chiang's inhumane shadow) acquire plenty o' warplanes to contend with the neighboring PROC.

 

[abc123]

Hi, abc! Thank you for continuing to support my althist idea, and now I get tod o the same for you!

Brilliant divergence point, firstly. As someone who bemoans the general lack of a sufficient AF during the Sino-Japanese War, I'm glad to see a partially-victorious ROC ( which hopefully will move out from Chiang's inhumane shadow) acquire plenty o' warplanes to contend with the neighboring PROC.

Thanks....

 

[abc123]

1992



CAI produced 30 J-6 fighters.

AVIC produced 18 J-7 fighters this year.

CAI produced last 15 Tornado ECR aircrafts. This was the end of Tornado production in China.

CAI produced 300 PL-3B Sky Sword missiles this year while AVIC produced 300 PL-4B Sky Lance missile.

AVIC produced 24 L-6 jet trainers this year.

AVIC also continued with F-5 modernisation, this year they also modernised 70 aircrafts.

RoCAF also started thinking about modernising their F-4 D/E Phantoms. They wanted to add better radar ( under development with Elta ), PL-4B and PL-3B capability, laser designators ( so that they can use laser-guided bombs ), HUD and HOTAS, RWR, GPS, new computer and some other improvements. Aircrafts ahould also be refitted, so that they can remain in service for at least 20 more years.
They decided to start with modernisation in 1994, when development of all necesarry systems is finished.

CAI Dynamics produced 200 FD-2 anti-radiation missiles.

 

[100Fathoms]

Short and sweet , good update .

 

[abc123]

1993

CAI produced 36 J-6 fighters. Production of J-6 is accelerated a bit, to make up for stopping of Tornado production and increased need for new aircrafts because of retiring of older aircrafts.

AVIC produced 18 J-7 fighters this year.

CAI produced 300 PL-3B Sky Sword missiles this year while AVIC produced 300 PL-4B Sky Lance missile.

AVIC produced 24 L-6 jet trainers this year. Production should finish next year, with about 230 aircrafts produced for RoCAF.

Meanwhile, RoCAF started to thinking about need to replace their L-5/PA-7 trainers. So, they decided to start development of improved variant L-5X that should start replacing them by end of decade.

AVIC also continued with F-5 modernisation, this year they also modernised 70 aircrafts. Modernisation should finish next year, with allmost all Tiger II aircrafts modernised, while older A/B variant should be retired from service in 1996.

RoCAF also decided that old Starfighters will be withdrawn from service by 2000.

Development of PL-4C missile is finished. If the C-version passes the tests this year, serial production should start next year. ( PL-4C is actually modernisation kit to retrofit older PL-4B missiles- it should be approximate equivalent of AIM-7P Sparrow ).
On the other hand, development of AMRAAM missile pushed the RoCAF into a development of active radar guidance variant of PL-4. New variant was named PL-4D. It should also have longer range ( 70 km vs. 50 km for B/C variant ).

CAI Dynamics produced 250 FD-2 anti-radiation missiles.

 

[abc123]

Deal with Russia and Ukraine

Per agreement from 1990 ( about reunification of China ), China had to buy at least 30 billions of Soviet/Russian goods within 5 years of Chinese reunification. After a lot of negotiatins, they finally suceeded to get an agreement in 1994.


China decided to buy from Russia:

25 batteries of S-300PMU1 missiles ( 5 billions USD )

15 Antonov An-124 Ruslan ( 3,75 billions USD )

60 Tu-22M3 strategic bombers ( 15 billions USD )- 20 will be produced in Russia and 40 in China by CAI.

licence, development costs and transfer of technology of Tu-204 ( 3 billions USD )

development cost of S-300 PMU2 and option to buy them when development is completed ( 2 billions USD )

30 Kolchuga passive sensors ( 2 billions USD )

200 Kh-55 cruise missiles ( 1 billion USD )

300 Kh-15 cruise missiles ( 1 billion USD )

support & spare parts package for Mi-8/17 ( 1 billion USD )

support & spare parts package for MiG-29 and Su-25 ( 1 billion USD )



China bought from Ukraine:

licence, development costs and transfer of technology of An-218- ( 5 billion USD )

licence, development costs and transfer of technology of An-74- ( 3 billions USD )

15 Antonov An-124 Ruslan- ( 3,75 billions USD )

support & spare parts package for Mi-8/17 helicopters- 1 billion USD


Chinese intelligence also managed to secretly buy from Ukraine 3 Su-27S fighters for additional 300 millions USD ( to use them for dissimilar air combat training ).

 

[abc123]

An-218

( it will be jointly produced by Antonov and COMAC, in both China and Ukraine, COMAC will get the right to produce An-218/C-218 for customers in Asia, Australia and in both Americas, while Antonov will produce it for CIS, Europe and Africa ). Serial production should start by 1998.

Tu-204

COMAC also bought the rights to produce under licence Tu-204 in China. Production should start in 1996.

Antonov An-74

AVIC bought the licence to produce An-74 in China. RoCAF plans to replace their C-123 Providers with An-74.

Tu-22M3

China will produce 40 of them at CAI, they will be fitted with Chinese avionics and with refueling probe- to extend their range.

An-124

S-300 missile launchers

 

[abc123]

1994


CAI produced 36 J-6 fighters.

AVIC produced 18 J-7 fighters this year.

CAI produced 300 PL-3B Sky Sword missiles this year while AVIC started production of 200 new PL-4C Sky Lance missiles and converted 200 old ones A-variants into C-variant.

AVIC produced 24 L-6 jet trainers this year. This finished production of this aircraft for RoCAF.

AVIC also continued with F-5 modernisation, this year they also modernised 70 aircrafts. RoCAF decided to modernise the remaining 40 aircrafts next year and after that finish the proces. RoCAF's designation for modernised aircrafts is J-4X.

Modernisation of RoCAFs JH-5A/B/ F-4D/E started. This year they modernised 20 aircrafts, while the number will be higher in future years. Modernisation of the whole fleet should be finished by 2000. RoCAFs designation for modernised aircrafts is JH-5X.

CAI Dynamics produced 300 FD-2 anti-radiation missiles.

 

[abc123]

1995


CAI produced 36 J-6 fighters.

AVIC produced 18 J-7 fighters this year.

CAI produced 300 PL-3B Sky Sword missiles this year while AVIC produced 250 new PL-4C Sky Lance missiles and converted 300 old ones A-variants into C-variant.

AVIC modernised last 40 F-5 Tiger II into a J-4X variant. Older A/B variant will be retired in 1996.

Meanwhile, Tupolev delivered first two Tu-22M3 strategic bombers to China. transfer of technology is under way and China expects that domestic production will start in late 1996. Russian deliveries will go pretty slowly, so Tupolev will deliver the bombery by pace of 4 per year, with last 2 delivered in 2000. RoCAf, on the other hand, expects that Chinese production of Tu-22M3 is much quicker, with all 40 aircrafts delivered by 2000.

RoCAF continued with F-4 modernisation. This year, they modernised 50 aircrafts.

CAI Dynamics produced 300 FD-2 anti-radiation missiles.