I was just thinking of this possibility... Why didn't hold? Because of the restored HRE order in Germany and Italy?
Alternate names for Germany
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I was just thinking of this possibility... Why didn't hold? Because of the restored HRE order in Germany and Italy?
I think the German people, as disaparate as they were with regards to identity, probably resented being thought of as "East France".
If the Allies post-WW2 really went full Morgenthau, I would imagine that this would be a great way of rubbing it in the Germans' faces.
But we are talking of the cultural mentality of the Germans in late tenth century, not of the ones post 1945.
Because it stopped being the kingdom of the eastern Franks after it got Saxon rulers.
They were Kings of the Franks (Francorum Rex) until Henry IV, when Pope Gregory VII called him Rex Teutonicorum (King of the Teutons/Germans) to invalidate his claim in Italy, then the to-be crowned Emperors called themselves "Rex Romanorum" (King of the Romans) to symbolize their universal rule even before being crowned by the Pope.
There are so many options.
The German name for ourselves (and the Dutch, too) is derived from "diutisc", which in Old High German meant "of the people, in the manner of the people, belonging to the people". If this has stuck IOTL, there`s totally no reason why the country might not also have ended up with something that derived from "the wooden lands", or "the flat / hilly lands", or "the lands of the elders", or from a word that denoted peasants, or orthodox believers, or or or....
The German name for ourselves (and the Dutch, too) is derived from "diutisc", which in Old High German meant "of the people, in the manner of the people, belonging to the people". If this has stuck IOTL, there`s totally no reason why the country might not also have ended up with something that derived from "the wooden lands", or "the flat / hilly lands", or "the lands of the elders", or from a word that denoted peasants, or orthodox believers, or or or....
Germany must be the country with the most different names amongst other languages. For Purutia I haven't heard, I must say. I know about Saksa, the ˝mute˝ variant amongst Slavs (and Hungarians too, they have a last name Nemeth, which means ˝ (a) German˝). An adjective/demonym not mentioned here is tedesco (Italian language, means ˝German˝). Also Korean Dogil, which somehow derives from Japanese Doitsu.
My own suggestion for a name: Teutonia.
My own suggestion for a name: Teutonia.
The German traders on the Baltic in the medieval times were often Saxon, and thus it is natural that Finns had dealings with Germans who would refer to themselves or their homeland as Sachsen. As a continuation of this theme, in Finnish an old term for a travelling salesman is kauppasaksa ("trade-German") or kamasaksa ("stuff-German"). Interestingly, a travelling salesman can also be called a laukkuryssä ("bag-Russian") especially in Eastern Finland.
The Finnish name for Russia, Venäjä, does not seem to refer to boats (unlike the Finnish word for Sweden, see below) but to "Wend", an old Germanic name for a Slavic people. It is easy to think there is a connection to boats, though, as in Estonian for example the word for Russia is Venemaa, which in Finnish looks exactly like "boat land".
In Finnish Sweden is called Ruotsi. It is said that the word is based on an old Swedish word for rowing. It is also said that Rus, for Russian, comes from the same root - due to the Varangians who ruled medieval Rus and arrived by boats. The derogatory name for Russians in Finnish, ryssä, then seems to come to Finnish through Swedish (ryss or ryska), whereas the similar term for a Swede, hurri, apparently comes from what a Swede says when a Finn does not understand or acknowledge him - hur, huru for "how, what" or hör du for "listen" or "are you listening".
I wonder what Germany could be in Finnish if it was not Saksa... There is the easy "Saksamaa" or "Saksimaa" as per Estonian, or maybe it could be "Teutsi" or "Toitsi" (or "Teutsimaa", "Toitsimaa", "Teutslanti", "Toitslanti") for Deutchland or "Tyska", "Tyskanmaa", "Tysklanti" if it is borrowed directly from Swedish.
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To add, there is apparently a linguistic peculiarity in the languages of the Veps and Komi people (connected to Finns). Ročinma in Veps means Sweden, but Ročmu in Komi/Zyrian language means Russia!
(I do not speak Finnish or any Finnic language, but I'm intrigued by languages in general. This info is from Wikipedia.)
Penny for The Guy
Banned
I Have No Idea
if this would be anywhere near a possibility, fluent speakers will correct, but how about Land of the People, or Volksland? Or is that too contrived?
(Strictly as a btw of no significance, there is a newsreader on one of the tv stations in Tucson named "Tedesco".)
if this would be anywhere near a possibility, fluent speakers will correct, but how about Land of the People, or Volksland? Or is that too contrived?
(Strictly as a btw of no significance, there is a newsreader on one of the tv stations in Tucson named "Tedesco".)
Where does the Latin "Germania" come from?
I think it is similar to the Allimania case (it comes from "all men" in a high German language being transliterated into Latin)
Even stranger, Gallia is actually a transliterated version of walha, old german for foreigner. Walloon, Wales, and Vallachia come from that root too.
I think it is similar to the Allimania case (it comes from "all men" in a high German language being transliterated into Latin)
Even stranger, Gallia is actually a transliterated version of walha, old german for foreigner. Walloon, Wales, and Vallachia come from that root too.
That would be "Almain". See Henry of Almain as one example. He was so called after his father Richard of Cornwall had been elected as "King of the Romans" by the German electors in 1257.
How would that even work? Sure, the Allies could decree that the new German state should be called "East France" in their official papers, bat AFAIK that would not even work in French - "Do we mean 'like Hannover in East France', or like 'Nancy in East France'?"
And what kind of hyperstalinist measure could ensure that the Germans start calling themselves Ostfranzosen in daily parlance?
Thanks. Since the link did not work for me the first few attempts, here is that map:
Ah, I think I have heard of them before. The Fungi from Vagoth, right?
Interesting indeed, but if Saksa is how Germany is called in Finnish, how do the Finns call Saxony?
As far as I know, the earliest known name for the Slavs was "Veneti", attested by Pliny the Elder, Ptolemy and Tacitus as living along the eastern Baltic coast. Half a millennium later, the Byzantine writer Jordanes describes the Veneti as a great and populous people occupying vast swathes of land. One of their component tribes was called the "Sclavi" (Slavs), whose name later came to encompass all the Veneti (something that seems to have regularly happened in early history with various ethnic groups). In later medieval times the older name Veneti turned into "Wend" and was applied to only a portion of the descendants of the Veneti.
Saksi, according to Wikipedia, for both the current federal state and the old tribal duchy. Lower Saxony is Ala-Saksi.
Interesting. The Germans who settled in medieval Serbia and Bosnia - as well as the larger community settled in Hungary - were also most often called Saxons (Sasi), even though many of them apparently came from the Rhineland and other regions. I wonder how Saxons became the "face" of Germany in so many different environments.
