Suppose the American continents simply did not exist. In the Old World history progresses as normal, until Columbus sets sail for the New World. Because there is no American continent, his crew eventually mutanies and returns to Spain. (There is No North America, South America, or Islands) How is the future of the world altered? Does Europe still come to dominate as quickly and fully as it did OTL? Does Naval power remain as significant? Does spain ever achieve anthing significant?
Alternate Earth
- Thread starter FirstCitizen1
- Start date
True. I didn't consider that this might have an effect on the position of the remaining continents. It might, but I'm no geologist. As to weather, I believe monsoon season in Asia would probably be significantly worse, due to no landmass to break up huricanes. Then again, I'm no meterologist, so I don't know how much this increase means in actual storm damage potential. But I do know Pangea is a possible configuration for the earth's continents, so what if the Old World was simply the Pangea?
Aldroud
Banned
Assume the weather is the same
The lack of influx of Aztec gold would put a damper on the rise of empires in Europe I would think. I would imagine a more thorough (spelling?) effort at colonizing/ conquoring Africa. Eventually, when the technology was high enough (mid-18th Cent maybe?) then ships could sail direct to China from Europe. I dont think there would be much difference as far as Far East relations with Europe, I think Europe would still carve out areas of influence in China, suffer a Boxer rebellion, and the opium wars.
The lack of influx of Aztec gold would put a damper on the rise of empires in Europe I would think. I would imagine a more thorough (spelling?) effort at colonizing/ conquoring Africa. Eventually, when the technology was high enough (mid-18th Cent maybe?) then ships could sail direct to China from Europe. I dont think there would be much difference as far as Far East relations with Europe, I think Europe would still carve out areas of influence in China, suffer a Boxer rebellion, and the opium wars.
We could move this threat from major ASB to minor ASB. How about an early civilization there which makes great advantages in earth moving technologies (explosives in mass production would do)?
They create lots of channels to irrigate the land, so that a population explosion occurs. More and more people level hills and mountains and move the material they can't use for buildings through the channels to lakes and coastal areas to gain more arable land.
In some areas of the coast, the material is swept away by the currents, in others, the water is too deep to cause any significant change for quite some years, so that the effort is given up, but in other areas, it works and more and more material is brought there.
Whoever wants or needs a farm, but didn't get enough land from his parents, buys tons of cheaply available broken rocks and fills some sea area with it. If he's not very successful, someone else continues the job after some time.
Erosion comes along in some parts of the country, as wind speeds pick up, and moves even more materials to the oceans, partly via the irrigation system.
After several hundred (maybe a few thousand) years, all the (extended) Americas, except maybe a few uninhabitable mountain ranges, is a big plain.
Removing the lid from vulcanoes has some bad side effects. At the first instances, the people just gave up on removing material from such sites. But after some time, they managed to use their channel systems to direct the lava to lakes and oceans, to advance their objectives. This also means, the land around the (now constantly active) vulcanoes sinks lower and lower.
A few hundred years later, nearly all of this plain is several dozen meters below water level, with an extensive system of dams at the coast lines. A system of salt water channels and watergates allows easy transport of more material to the coast, while a system of wind driven pumps clears the salt water.
Somewhere, a large earth slide or some other catastrophe makes the dams break, even including the backups (old dams) miles inside the land. The flood wipes away nearly the whole population. The currents and freak waves caused by the floodings also wipe away most of the remaining dams, so that most of the people who fled also die.
In the few places that remain, lack of food reduces the population to nearly none. The few remaining mountains or cold deserts (northern Canada) don't allow the production of the known explosives, so that the few surviving people can't reclaim the land, despite just a few meters to the ground in some areas.
When European explorers a hundred years or so later discover the few remains, they hear of this flooding myth, but don't believe a word. Most evidence has been washed to the sea.
Instead, the area is considered a dangerous shipping ground, because in some places the water is extremely shallow. Only in the 19th century have shipping routes to Asia via the Atlantic/Pacific Ocean been established.
Just today people slowly begin to uncover some faint evidence of cities, channels, tools, and so on across the mentioned area.
They create lots of channels to irrigate the land, so that a population explosion occurs. More and more people level hills and mountains and move the material they can't use for buildings through the channels to lakes and coastal areas to gain more arable land.
In some areas of the coast, the material is swept away by the currents, in others, the water is too deep to cause any significant change for quite some years, so that the effort is given up, but in other areas, it works and more and more material is brought there.
Whoever wants or needs a farm, but didn't get enough land from his parents, buys tons of cheaply available broken rocks and fills some sea area with it. If he's not very successful, someone else continues the job after some time.
Erosion comes along in some parts of the country, as wind speeds pick up, and moves even more materials to the oceans, partly via the irrigation system.
After several hundred (maybe a few thousand) years, all the (extended) Americas, except maybe a few uninhabitable mountain ranges, is a big plain.
Removing the lid from vulcanoes has some bad side effects. At the first instances, the people just gave up on removing material from such sites. But after some time, they managed to use their channel systems to direct the lava to lakes and oceans, to advance their objectives. This also means, the land around the (now constantly active) vulcanoes sinks lower and lower.
A few hundred years later, nearly all of this plain is several dozen meters below water level, with an extensive system of dams at the coast lines. A system of salt water channels and watergates allows easy transport of more material to the coast, while a system of wind driven pumps clears the salt water.
Somewhere, a large earth slide or some other catastrophe makes the dams break, even including the backups (old dams) miles inside the land. The flood wipes away nearly the whole population. The currents and freak waves caused by the floodings also wipe away most of the remaining dams, so that most of the people who fled also die.
In the few places that remain, lack of food reduces the population to nearly none. The few remaining mountains or cold deserts (northern Canada) don't allow the production of the known explosives, so that the few surviving people can't reclaim the land, despite just a few meters to the ground in some areas.
When European explorers a hundred years or so later discover the few remains, they hear of this flooding myth, but don't believe a word. Most evidence has been washed to the sea.
Instead, the area is considered a dangerous shipping ground, because in some places the water is extremely shallow. Only in the 19th century have shipping routes to Asia via the Atlantic/Pacific Ocean been established.
Just today people slowly begin to uncover some faint evidence of cities, channels, tools, and so on across the mentioned area.
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People,
Imagining an alternate history in which the American continents never existed is NOT ASB. It is ASB to ask what would happen if they suddenly disappeared in 1750, but speculating on the cultural developments in a world in which they never existed is no different than speculating on one in which Hitler was never born!
Some quick ideas:
(1) After Columbus and his eventual followers all die before they reach China due to the ocean being much larger than they imagined, true ocean going navigation is either adandoned or only occurs after industrial technology makes such travel faster than going overland or around the cape.
(2) Europe does not rise to dominance - technologial developments in world are slower and more evenly spread out.
(3) Absent the Americas to exploit, Europeans attempt significant contacts with civilizations of Asia earlier, forcing earlier Asian modernization and adaptation to this development. Maybe China does not change priorities and colonizes and trades as aggressively as west. See above.
Imagining an alternate history in which the American continents never existed is NOT ASB. It is ASB to ask what would happen if they suddenly disappeared in 1750, but speculating on the cultural developments in a world in which they never existed is no different than speculating on one in which Hitler was never born!
Some quick ideas:
(1) After Columbus and his eventual followers all die before they reach China due to the ocean being much larger than they imagined, true ocean going navigation is either adandoned or only occurs after industrial technology makes such travel faster than going overland or around the cape.
(2) Europe does not rise to dominance - technologial developments in world are slower and more evenly spread out.
(3) Absent the Americas to exploit, Europeans attempt significant contacts with civilizations of Asia earlier, forcing earlier Asian modernization and adaptation to this development. Maybe China does not change priorities and colonizes and trades as aggressively as west. See above.
What about all the Indians? Did they just run into the Bering Sea or something.
And Vikings etc.
And Vikings etc.