Alphonso, Earl of Chester and Margaret, Maid of Norway survive

[The Gybson Boy]

Alphonso, Earl of Chester was the son of Edward I and Eleanor of Castile who died at the age of 10, while Margaret, Maid of Norway was the daughter of Eric II of Norway and Margaret, Maid of Scotland who inherited the throne from her grandfather, Alexander III of Scotland in 1286, what would happen if they both ended up surviving?
In OTL Alphonso of Chester was engaged to Margaret, daughter of Floris V, Count of Holland, would Edward I break their reign to marry Alphonso to Margaret of Scotland?

 

[kasumigenx]

Alphonso, Earl of Chester was the son of Edward I and Eleanor of Castile who died at the age of 10, while Margaret, Maid of Norway was the daughter of Eric II of Norway and Margaret, Maid of Scotland who inherited the throne from her grandfather, Alexander III of Scotland in 1286, what would happen if they both ended up surviving?
In OTL Alphonso of Chester was engaged to Margaret, daughter of Floris V, Count of Holland, would Edward I break their reign to marry Alphonso to Margaret of Scotland?

She would marry OTL Edward II.

 

[Avrorrange]

Alphonso, Earl of Chester was the son of Edward I and Eleanor of Castile who died at the age of 10, while Margaret, Maid of Norway was the daughter of Eric II of Norway and Margaret, Maid of Scotland who inherited the throne from her grandfather, Alexander III of Scotland in 1286, what would happen if they both ended up surviving?
In OTL Alphonso of Chester was engaged to Margaret, daughter of Floris V, Count of Holland, would Edward I break their reign to marry Alphonso to Margaret of Scotland?

Break the betrothal.

 

[Lalli]

She would marry OTL Edward II.

It was OTL plan but on that time Edward jr. was his father's heir. But ITTL Alphonse would be still that heir. That would change things assuming that Edward I sees chances to take Scotland under reign of the Plantagenets. So he could break bethoral deal and decide that Alphonse marries Maid of Norway.

 

[isabella]

It was OTL plan but on that time Edward jr. was his father's heir. But ITTL Alphonse would be still that heir. That would change things assuming that Edward I sees chances to take Scotland under reign of the Plantagenets. So he could break bethoral deal and decide that Alphonse marries Maid of Norway.

Well Scotland would be far likelier to agree to an engagement between their young Queen and the second son of the King of England than to one with the heir, if the King of England has two available sons

 

[The Gybson Boy]

Well Scotland would be far likelier to agree to an engagement between their young Queen and the second son of the King of England than to one with the heir, if the King of England has two available sons

The Scots would certainly like that, but I doubt Edward I would let the opportunity to bring Scotland under personal union slip away.

 

[Ivan Lupo]

Thing is, Alphonso and Margaret of Holland might be married by the time Margaret of Norway becomes Alexander's heir to Scotland.

 

[pandizzy]

Alphonso was about 10 when his brother was born, so he'd be around 9 years older than Margaret.

 

[The Gybson Boy]

Thing is, Alphonso and Margaret of Holland might be married by the time Margaret of Norway becomes Alexander's heir to Scotland.

Margaret became heiress in 1284 and Queen in 1286, when Alphonso would have been 11 and 13 years old respectively, she could have been married but the marriage would not have been consummated and could be annulled.

Alphonso was about 10 when his brother was born, so he'd be around 9 years older than Margaret.

This won't be a problem in the 13th century, Edward would certainly be willing to wait if it meant an Anglo-Scottish union

 

[kasumigenx]

Margaret became heiress in 1284 and Queen in 1286, when Alphonso would have been 11 and 13 years old respectively, she could have been married but the marriage would not have been consummated and could be annulled.

This won't be a problem in the 13th century, Edward would certainly be willing to wait if it meant an Anglo-Scottish union

Perhaps, Alfonso could marry Margaret of Norway and Edward could marry Blanche or Margaret of France and get Aquitaine, that might be a better scenario for England in the long term.

 

[HortenseMancini]

I don’t think Margaret being heiress of Scotland is a given if our pod is Alphonso surviving and I also don’t think Alphonso marrying Margaret if she is heiress of Scotland is super likely

 

[material_boy]

I don’t think Margaret being heiress of Scotland is a given if our pod is Alphonso surviving and I also don’t think Alphonso marrying Margaret if she is heiress of Scotland is super likely

I'm not following you here. Are you suggesting that Alphonso's survival somehow gets Alexander III's second wife pregnant?

I'm inclined to agree with you and others in this thread that Alphonso and Margaret is an unlikely match. Edward and Margaret seems much more likely to me, which allows for a Plantagenet Scotland but no union of the crowns.

 

[HortenseMancini]

I'm not following you here. Are you suggesting that Alphonso's survival somehow gets Alexander III's second wife pregnant?

Alphonso died a couple years before Alexander iii and Alexander’s otl death was an accident so pretty avoidable imho and if he survives why shouldn’t he get yolande pregnant?

 

[Lalli]

Alphonso was about 10 when his brother was born, so he'd be around 9 years older than Margaret.

Such age gap is not unheard. And even nowadays there is even bigger age gaps between spouses.

But yeah, marriage of Alphonse and Margaret of Scotland seems unlikely but it hardly is due age gap.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

if Alexander III manages to get them to acknowledge his granddaughter as his heiress, I could see him throwing in a stipulation making it dependent on a marriage to Edward I's younger son, not his heir. No younger son? Sorry, she marries elsewhere

 

[material_boy]

if Alexander III manages to get them to acknowledge his granddaughter as his heiress, I could see him throwing in a stipulation making it dependent on a marriage to Edward I's younger son, not his heir. No younger son? Sorry, she marries elsewhere

I think the first part of this is spot on -- the Alexander and his subjects would both prefer to not see a union of the crown. I'm not sure about the stipulation that it's a younger son or not an English prince at all, though. I think they'd be fine with a union of the crowns that included guarantees for Scotland to remain functionally independent, i.e., separate laws, the king needing to come north to preside over the Scottish parliament, etc. Indeed, a pre-Wars of Independence Scotland would probably prefer a union with England to having a king who was totally foreign.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I'm curious as to whether butterflies allowing for the situation in Scotland to change (whether its Alexander III leaving a surviving heir) if Edward I would go on Crusade like he wanted to? If so, what would be the effects of him going on Crusade instead? Aside from a better financial situation for Alphonso (the Scots' quagmire drove his dad to near bankruptcy)

 

[30PrincesAndAKing]

I'm curious as to whether butterflies allowing for the situation in Scotland to change (whether its Alexander III leaving a surviving heir) if Edward I would go on Crusade like he wanted to? If so, what would be the effects of him going on Crusade instead? Aside from a better financial situation for Alphonso (the Scots' quagmire drove his dad to near bankruptcy)

Crusading wasn't cheap either, however, so chances are if the financial situation is better, it wouldn't be better by much.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Crusading wasn't cheap either, however, so chances are if the financial situation is better, it wouldn't be better by much.

it wasn't cheap by any means, but it would be Edward's private moneys/loans etc, parliament had refused to grant him the money to go on Crusade. They had no problem opening the coffers for the Scots war- the main reason Edward got personally involved "use it or lose it" IIRC.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

another interesting thing to consider is that both Isabelle's sisters who died in infancy were betrothed to Fernando IV, King of Castile. In all likelihood, Isabelle winds up as queen of Castile, which could be fun to watch @Shnurre @Ramontxo