Its likely this was done at some point before but I was recently considering the possible implications that could arise with one of the most powerful ancient empires remaining united for much longer.

So I think the first obvious step is for Alexander to realise his own mortality at least a few years before dying and begins to groom one of his best generals or older children for command. He'll have to teach them the logic behind his battle tactics and how to organise the impressive system of logistics associated with his campaigns. At this point he specifically starts increasing the standing and power of his chosen successor in the empire while keeping the other great people in the empire as busy as possible while limiting their power. As a result when alexander finally dies with a limited amount of conflict his chosen heir ascends to the throne.

As time passes the new emperor will be able to consolidate the vast empire and begin to more effectively utilise its resources to undergo further expansion. The obvious targets are the various Hellenic colonies through out Sicily, the south of the Italian peninsular and the black sea as well as Sparta and Epirus. With their ability to control trade moving from east to west their ability to trade goods with the cultures to their west such as Carthage would be paramount and as such it would logical to expect that they would build up a large navy in the Mediterranean and various bases too facilitate trade and navel patrols.

Carthage ever a trading empire would desire the trade goods of the east and would be too intimidated by the Macedonian empire to seriously contest the eastern med. As such their expansion would likely be focused on Iberia, Marseille. The more aggressive Rome might try to conquer parts of Scilly and southern the southern Italian peninsula but it would be unlikely to succeed against the vast resources of the Macedonians who would be more likely to use the more flexible tactics of Alexander rather than the Pike obsessed ones of his successors. As a result if Rome survived the next few centuries it would most likely be a vassal or tributary of the Macedonians with their only expansion being into northern Italy Cisalpine Gaul and Transalpine Gaul. The Punic war would likely never happen as Rome would have no real presence in Italy however a smaller version of the wars might occur in southern Gaul. Without the wealth gained from conquering much of north Africa Greece and Italy Rome would be unable to permanently penetrate into the Gallic interior.

Further East the Macedonians would like make small colonies on the coast of the Arabian peninsula and expand into some parts of the Indian sub-continent if only so future generation can claim to have out done Alexander. While this venture would most likely have brought ruin to many who tried after properly using the resources of their vast empire the Macedonians would be able to slowly make progress.

A few centuries later it becomes impossible to say what might happen. Eventually the empire would surely fall like all great empires of the ancient world but its position as a trade empire would allow it a certain stability as it didn't have to rely purely on conquest to fund itself. Seeing as the successors of Alexander would most likely be Greek or Macedonian Hellenic culture would supersede Persian but it likely that Persian culture would be a large influence on the modern world along with Hellenic culture. Its likely that the eastern Mediterranean and middle east would continue to be major source of the most advanced empires only rivalled by those of the far east due to the Islamic and western European nation's grow being stunted by the Macedonian empire and its successors dominating the region and being the main hub for industry, culture and technology.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
It's funny: another thread about Alexander living longer was posted just now. Seems that today is an Alexander-day. (Well, no complaints from me!)

Regarding this particular scenario, I feel obliged to point out what I did in the other thread, as well: the chances of Alexander living long enough to get an adult heir in place are slim. He had an unborn son by the time he died, and that's his heir. He won't start grooming some general or something: not unless his heir dies. So essentially you need a scenario wherein Alexander lives much longer-- preferably twinty years more, or something like that. Then he can leave his empire to his adult son, which is really the most stable thing to do. (Macedonian succession was notoriously messy: having a son as an undisputed heir is the best way to ensure things go smoothly.) Let's be honest: Alexander living twenty more years is, considering his extremely wild life, not exactly likely. It's frankly a miracle he lived as long as he did, considering how often he nearly died!

Yet I'll be the first to admit: the idea captivates me, too. Alexander living longer, founding a lasting empire? It certainly inspires me, and I happen to believe that if Alexander can live twenty more years (and if his heir is a capable administrator), the chances of this empire lasting for a good long time are actually fairly good (contrary to conventianal wisdom). Alexander himself was the weak point. He died before he was done; before he could cosolidate. But as I pointed out in the other thread just now:

Fact is, he had just solved most internal restistance, and he was actually rather popular with the general populace. If Alexander lives, mass revolts aren't that likely, and besides Kassandros, enemies in his own ranks have been dealt with. It's his demise that's the big threat.

If he lives longer, he can realistically take Arabia and North Africa for sure. Trouble had been brewing in northern Anatolia (parts of which were not under his control), so i can see him mounting an expedition there, pushing the northern border of his empire to the Caucasus. The Samnites in Italy had killed his uncle (Alexandros the Molossian), and revenge was in the cards. Considering that, an alliance with Rome is more likely than a fight with Rome. Alexander might be inclined to annex the Greek cities in southern Italy to his empire, and then divide the lands between there and Rome between himself and the Romans.

Potential other steps, though less likely, include annexing Greek cities in the far west, such as Massalia, and launching an expedition to annex the Crimea and the western coast of the Black Sea (which also had Greek settlements). All this in light of a desire to unite all Greeks under his aegis. Finally, I can see an expedition against the Illyrians happening.

A second expedition to conquer India would remain a fond wish of Alexander, but I don't see it happening. By the time he'd be ready to give it a second try, Chandragupta Maurya would already have taken control there. So let's consider: Indian armies were vast, the terrain was largely unfamiliar to Alexander's troops, fighting enemies who have elephants is not fun, and Chandragupta is an extremely capable leader himself. On those grounds, I feel confident in writing off a second Indian expedition. If Alexander tries it, it'll be his doom.

My question, then, is simple: who exactly is going to be a threat of an empire that powerful? If Alexander lives twenty more years or so, that's plenty of time to carry through with his vision of culturally mixing his empire's populace. His army will be fully integrated, and loyal to the empire instead of to "Macedon", or "Greece", or "Persia".


I frankly admit that it has long been my wish to write a timeline on this exact topic. It may not be the most likely scenario, with the odds of Alexander living long enough being so low, but if we take that premise for granted, the resulting idea of a long-lived empire isn't so far-fetched. And very interesting...
 

Magical123

Banned
So Arnold Toynbee's Alexander LXVII?

A glorious world spanning Macedonian Empire with a statue to the great King and lord of the world on every street, every one speaks Greek and the olympics are watched worldwide, an empire that shall have no end?

That sort of doesn't fall? Cuz that would be awesome.
 
As time passes the new emperor will be able to consolidate the vast empire and begin to more effectively utilise its resources to undergo further expansion. The obvious targets are the various Hellenic colonies through out Sicily, the south of the Italian peninsular and the black sea as well as Sparta and Epirus. With their ability to control trade moving from east to west their ability to trade goods with the cultures to their west such as Carthage would be paramount and as such it would logical to expect that they would build up a large navy in the Mediterranean and various bases too facilitate trade and navel patrols.
Well it's likely if Alexander is living longer, he would have campaigned in Carthage, Arabia, and Southern Italy/Sicily, so this should theoretically already be done. Granted, Argead rule there is not going to be very stable.

The more aggressive Rome might try to conquer parts of Scilly and southern the southern Italian peninsula but it would be unlikely to succeed against the vast resources of the Macedonians who would be more likely to use the more flexible tactics of Alexander rather than the Pike obsessed ones of his successors.
At the same time Macedonian resources are going to be incredibly overstretched and it's unlikely their control over areas such as Carthage, Sicily, and southern Italy is going to be very secure to start with. These are cities that are very independent minded, and in some cases have histories of being the regional hegemon themselves. Meanwhile the Argead Empire is going to be dealing with threats on several borders-whatever Chandragupta Maurya is up to in India, consolidating control over Anatolia, dealing with Celtic migrations in the Balkans, still dealing with periodic revolts in Greece, and of course inevitable revolts in Carthage and Magna Graecia. I'm honestly not convinced long term that Magna Graecia and Carthage could remain under effective Argead rule.

As a result if Rome survived the next few centuries it would most likely be a vassal or tributary of the Macedonians with their only expansion being into northern Italy Cisalpine Gaul and Transalpine Gaul. The Punic war would likely never happen as Rome would have no real presence in Italy however a smaller version of the wars might occur in southern Gaul. Without the wealth gained from conquering much of north Africa Greece and Italy Rome would be unable to permanently penetrate into the Gallic interior.
We're getting a bit ahead of ourselves here. First we're assuming the Argead Empire's borders would remain relatively static, which is a big "if", especially given those borders include areas not at all easy to maintain control over. Second, you have to assume that the Argead Empire are going to have a long period of remarkable stability and competent rulership, which was never the case in any of the Macedonian successor kingdoms, or, for that matter, in Macedonian succession in general. As was mentioned earlier, a smooth and bloodless succession is the exception to the rule throughout Macedonian history. Finally, you have to assume there will be no breakaway states. In an empire this big, certain satraps are going to acquire quite a bit of personal power. You may see attempted breakaway states in areas such as Baktria and maybe Egypt, or some generals deciding that carving out their own independent fiefdom in Carthage or Sicily and accommodating, rather than fighting, the grievances of the locals is a nice idea in times of imperial weakness.

None of this means the Argead Empire will necessarily collapse. Rome had all of these things at various points, and the Roman Empire survived in some form for a millennium. But it is very difficult for them to maintain their maximum extent borders for very long.

Further East the Macedonians would like make small colonies on the coast of the Arabian peninsula and expand into some parts of the Indian sub-continent if only so future generation can claim to have out done Alexander. While this venture would most likely have brought ruin to many who tried after properly using the resources of their vast empire the Macedonians would be able to slowly make progress.
Alexander was preparing to go on a campaign into Arabia right before he died.

A few centuries later it becomes impossible to say what might happen. Eventually the empire would surely fall like all great empires of the ancient world but its position as a trade empire would allow it a certain stability as it didn't have to rely purely on conquest to fund itself. Seeing as the successors of Alexander would most likely be Greek or Macedonian Hellenic culture would supersede Persian but it likely that Persian culture would be a large influence on the modern world along with Hellenic culture. Its likely that the eastern Mediterranean and middle east would continue to be major source of the most advanced empires only rivalled by those of the far east due to the Islamic and western European nation's grow being stunted by the Macedonian empire and its successors dominating the region and being the main hub for industry, culture and technology.
Culture will probably be similar to the OTL Hellenistic era. An adoption of the Persian model of kingship, and a fusion of various eastern and Egyptian customs with Hellenic ones. IOTL there were gymnasia as far east as Bactra. An interesting thought is the development of "science" (I put science in quotes since you can't really call Hellenistic philosophers scientists) and medicine develop in the absence of Rome's rise arresting promising developments in these fields during the Hellenistic era.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
So Arnold Toynbee's Alexander LXVII?

A glorious world spanning Macedonian Empire with a statue to the great King and lord of the world on every street, every one speaks Greek and the olympics are watched worldwide, an empire that shall have no end?

That sort of doesn't fall? Cuz that would be awesome.

Toynbee really went all-out with the wankage on that one, didn't he? A fun read, but not realistic. And yet: even a quarter of what is achieved in Toynbee's vision would be unmatched in OTL.

What really gets me going about this whole idea is that, unlike what Toynee describes, it wouldn't be a world where everyone speaks Greek (et cetera). It would be a world where a vast multicultural empire has had ample time to develop its own hybridised culture, rooted in Hellenic culture, Persian culture, Egyptian culture... with influences from Arabia, the Levant, Carthage, Italy, and (trade with) the Celtic world, India, perhaps even China. Suppose that even the core of such an empire lasts for a thousand years or so, losing and regaining bits of the periphery from time to time, but always being a channel for intensive intercultural contact between east and west...

By the end of that period, we'd be looking at something so fantastically different from OTL that it almost boggles the mind! (I'd love to write this timeline one day, but I'd want to do it in a realistic way - actually portraying such a hypothetical culture - and that's just a daunting task!)
 
Toynbee really went all-out with the wankage on that one, didn't he? A fun read, but not realistic. And yet: even a quarter of what is achieved in Toynbee's vision would be unmatched in OTL.

What really gets me going about this whole idea is that, unlike what Toynee describes, it wouldn't be a world where everyone speaks Greek (et cetera). It would be a world where a vast multicultural empire has had ample time to develop its own hybridised culture, rooted in Hellenic culture, Persian culture, Egyptian culture... with influences from Arabia, the Levant, Carthage, Italy, and (trade with) the Celtic world, India, perhaps even China. Suppose that even the core of such an empire lasts for a thousand years or so, losing and regaining bits of the periphery from time to time, but always being a channel for intensive intercultural contact between east and west...

By the end of that period, we'd be looking at something so fantastically different from OTL that it almost boggles the mind! (I'd love to write this timeline one day, but I'd want to do it in a realistic way - actually portraying such a hypothetical culture - and that's just a daunting task!)
This is kind of what I'm toying with in my timeline (though I'm not sure how long the empire will last). It is as you said incredibly daunting, especially for me since I wasnt all that well versed in all the cultures of central asia and the middle east before I undertook the endeavor.

It definitely makes for a fascinating learning experience though.
 

Deleted member 97083

What really gets me going about this whole idea is that, unlike what Toynee describes, it wouldn't be a world where everyone speaks Greek (et cetera). It would be a world where a vast multicultural empire has had ample time to develop its own hybridised culture, rooted in Hellenic culture, Persian culture, Egyptian culture... with influences from Arabia, the Levant, Carthage, Italy, and (trade with) the Celtic world, India, perhaps even China.
Alternatively, the dystopian version where Sparta conquers the diadochi states and forms something between Ptolemaic and Assyrian despotism.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
This is kind of what I'm toying with in my timeline (though I'm not sure how long the empire will last). It is as you said incredibly daunting, especially for me since I wasnt all that well versed in all the cultures of central asia and the middle east before I undertook the endeavor.

It definitely makes for a fascinating learning experience though.

Well, just in case nobody said it of late: you're doing great! Alexander discussions are usually awesome, but Alexander timelines often have a bit of a tendency to either be very wanky, or to stall and then die after three very great posts. I consider your TL to be the gold standard for Alexander TLs, really.


Alternatively, the dystopian version where Sparta conquers the diadochi states and forms something between Ptolemaic and Assyrian despotism.

Adequately horrible, but I think Sparta's had its day by that point. No way they're making a comeback. (Please don't treat that as a challenge! ;) )
 

Deleted member 97083

Adequately horrible, but I think Sparta's had its day by that point. No way they're making a comeback.
Well in a surviving Alexander scenario, the Spartans could ally with all the Greek nobles angry about Alexander's Persianization policy and post-323 BC conquests--the "optimates" or "reactionaries" if you will--as a way to jump into a later version of the diadochi wars. The Spartan commanders leading Macedonian and other non-Spartan mutineers.

The result would be similar in Ptolemaic dynasty in form but devolving to become more oppressive/evil with the Spartan outlook and system spreading outward.
 
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Well in a surviving Alexander scenario, the Spartans could ally with all the Greek nobles angry about Alexander's Persianization policy and post-323 BC conquests--the "optimates" or "reactionaries" if you will--as a way to jump into a later version of the diadochi wars. The Spartan commanders leading Macedonian and other non-Spartan mutineers.

The result would be similar in Ptolemaic dynasty in form but devolving to become more oppressive/evil with the Spartan outlook and system spreading outward.
The Spartans still had the power projection ability only slightly better than Thebes post-sacking. It says a lot that Phillip and Alexander didn't even bother conquering Sparta when they refused to join the Corinthian League. They were irrelevant.
 
On this date, the 12th of the 17th, of the year 11,501 of the Holocene Era, Ploiarchos Sameera Elena al-Iskandari and crew has successfully made planetfall on Proxima Centauri b.
 
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Toynbee really went all-out with the wankage on that one, didn't he? A fun read, but not realistic. And yet: even a quarter of what is achieved in Toynbee's vision would be unmatched in OTL.

What really gets me going about this whole idea is that, unlike what Toynee describes, it wouldn't be a world where everyone speaks Greek (et cetera). It would be a world where a vast multicultural empire has had ample time to develop its own hybridised culture, rooted in Hellenic culture, Persian culture, Egyptian culture... with influences from Arabia, the Levant, Carthage, Italy, and (trade with) the Celtic world, India, perhaps even China. Suppose that even the core of such an empire lasts for a thousand years or so, losing and regaining bits of the periphery from time to time, but always being a channel for intensive intercultural contact between east and west...

By the end of that period, we'd be looking at something so fantastically different from OTL that it almost boggles the mind! (I'd love to write this timeline one day, but I'd want to do it in a realistic way - actually portraying such a hypothetical culture - and that's just a daunting task!)

Toynbee's vision was of a world empire. What you describe could be what happened as it grew but once Alexander conquered China it was game over and Hellenism became dominant as the world culture. Once Hannibal the great explorer 'discovered' Atlantis (the Americas) the world empire was virtually complete and certainly could not be successfully challenged by any existing petty power that they had not yet conquered.
 
On this date, the 12th of the 17th, of the year 11,501 of the Holocene Era, Ploiarchos Sameera Elena al-Iskandari and crew has successfully made planetfall on Proxima Centauri b.

I wonder what the standard they planted looked like? A lion atop a a Macedonian star perhaps?
 
Rome as an ally of Alexander is a possibility but wouldn't Appius Claudius be in power at this time? A Macedonian garrison supporting a puppet Roman regime or a Roman client state acting as the Macedonian 'sheriff' in Western Europe?
 
Rome as an ally of Alexander is a possibility but wouldn't Appius Claudius be in power at this time? A Macedonian garrison supporting a puppet Roman regime or a Roman client state acting as the Macedonian 'sheriff' in Western Europe?
I would imagine that under the circumstances Rome would remain a minor power controlling central and northern Italy with a limited sphere of influence in Gaul. It may serve as a source of mercenaries for the Macedonians with trade from the east passing through roman territory into Gallic and Germanic nations but ultimately Rome would remain a minor power no more memorable or influential than the Samnites.
 
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