Al-Angalia: The Islamic Kingdom of England
- Thread starter Flocculencio
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Flocculencio
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I'm wondering about how this should go.
At the moment we've got the British Isles and Scandinavia under the English "denomination" of Islam- which I shall call Alfredi (since it was King Alfred who instituted it). Now I'm wondering what effect this will have on the development of Europe.
First of all, will there be Crusades to the Holy Land in TTL? With the Alfredi at closer hand, surely the knights of Northern Europe will have a closer enemy to fight.
Secondly, will the Spanish Reconquista be blunted since more knights may be occupied fighting the English instead of going to Spain?
At the moment we've got the British Isles and Scandinavia under the English "denomination" of Islam- which I shall call Alfredi (since it was King Alfred who instituted it). Now I'm wondering what effect this will have on the development of Europe.
First of all, will there be Crusades to the Holy Land in TTL? With the Alfredi at closer hand, surely the knights of Northern Europe will have a closer enemy to fight.
Secondly, will the Spanish Reconquista be blunted since more knights may be occupied fighting the English instead of going to Spain?
Well, I can certainly see an analogue to the Teutonic Knights emerging in northern Germany, or perhaps southern Denmark or the southern tip of Sweden, after a few succesful conquests. And we might just see a few Crusader states in the area between Brittany and Denmark.
Perhaps the Frisians or a Frisian Crusader Order can become such a Teutonic Knights-analogue...
..
As for Islamic Spain; wether they will happen will really depend on to what degree this TL will mimick OTL. For example, will the Almoravids and Almohads arise in this TL as they did in OTL?
Both dynasties seriously delayed the completion of the Reconquista by conquering and uniting the remnants of the Caliphate of Cordoba, which collapsed mainly as a result of internal instability, dynastic struggles, and conflicts with rival Muslim dynasties in the Maghreb.
Less pressure from the Christian kingdoms in the north may slow the decline and eventual collapse of the Caliphate of Cordoba a little, but I really doubt wether
Also, the British Isles are much harder to reach and invade than the Muslim states and statelets on the Iberian Peninsula, and the Muslim states on the Iberian Peninsula are likely to be much richer than al-Anglia, therefore making them a more attractive target for invaders of any kind.
As for the Crusades; if you leave the events in North Africa and the Middle East (the rise of the Fatimids, the independance of the Zirids in Tunesia, the Banu Hilal invasions, the rule of the Fatimid Caliph al-Hakim, the rise Great Seljuk Empire, the Byzantine Empire and especially Mantzikert) unchanged, then we'll propably still see at least one Crusade, but that Crusade will propably be a bit weaker than in OTL.
On a side note: no or weaker Crusades might just butterfly away the Fourth Crusade and the destruction of the Byzantine Empire...
Perhaps the Frisians or a Frisian Crusader Order can become such a Teutonic Knights-analogue...
..
As for Islamic Spain; wether they will happen will really depend on to what degree this TL will mimick OTL. For example, will the Almoravids and Almohads arise in this TL as they did in OTL?
Both dynasties seriously delayed the completion of the Reconquista by conquering and uniting the remnants of the Caliphate of Cordoba, which collapsed mainly as a result of internal instability, dynastic struggles, and conflicts with rival Muslim dynasties in the Maghreb.
Less pressure from the Christian kingdoms in the north may slow the decline and eventual collapse of the Caliphate of Cordoba a little, but I really doubt wether
Also, the British Isles are much harder to reach and invade than the Muslim states and statelets on the Iberian Peninsula, and the Muslim states on the Iberian Peninsula are likely to be much richer than al-Anglia, therefore making them a more attractive target for invaders of any kind.
As for the Crusades; if you leave the events in North Africa and the Middle East (the rise of the Fatimids, the independance of the Zirids in Tunesia, the Banu Hilal invasions, the rule of the Fatimid Caliph al-Hakim, the rise Great Seljuk Empire, the Byzantine Empire and especially Mantzikert) unchanged, then we'll propably still see at least one Crusade, but that Crusade will propably be a bit weaker than in OTL.
On a side note: no or weaker Crusades might just butterfly away the Fourth Crusade and the destruction of the Byzantine Empire...
Max Sinister
Banned
Iberia, Britain and Scandinavia are Muslim now. I wonder whether this could tip the balance, i.e. all of Europe becoming Muslim. Of course, there are inner-Muslim conflicts too.
Because the Irish Christians were instrumental in bringing the faith to England and the continent in OTL, it might be interesting to see how they may play a role in the devolpment of this uniquely English brand of Islam. I ponder the possibility that al-Anglia Islam might become a third version (Sunni and Shia being the others). Furthermore, if Scandinavia becomes Islamic, the Christian realms of Europe are going to feel surrounded. With the sense that their backs are to the wall, I wonder if the Europeans might be more likely to work together to fight the common foe. Especially if the Scandinavian Muslims carry the faith east and south via their trade network in Russia..and thereby link up with the Muslims in the Middle East.
do u mean the fourth ?
There was already the third branch of Islam who resides in Oman . This branch is called "Ibadism". They have their teachings quite distinct from Sunni or Shia teachings. As I know, there r also followers of this branch in Zanzibar Island, Algeria and Libya (the later 2 as minority).
Your welcome. It is my pleasure to know that the information i gave helpful for you 
Your welcome. It is my pleasure to know that the information i gave helpful for you
Don't forget the Kharajites!
Sure i remember about them
. Just altough it maybe true that ibadis were originally Kharajites, the Ibadis themselves reject this claim.
Keenir
Banned
according to...? *is curious*
the ones I know, say they are neither Sunni nor Shia.
(maybe the Alawis are, but not the Alevi)
Alevis also consider themeselves shiites! Why dun you try wikipedia? I got the resource from there...
According to my 1999 World Almanac (I need to get a new one), there are 2 billion Christians worldwide, over half of whom are Catholic - over 1 billion. Non-Anglican Protestants number 360 million, Orthodox 223 million, Anglicans 54 Million, and "other" Christians (which probably includes the Syriac, Coptic, Nestorian and other such churches) have about 287 million.
The Orthodox church is not centralized like the Roman Catholic church, and there is an independent church in each country (Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc.) Though not as doctrinally divided as the Protestants, the Orthodox aren't united under one roof. At best, the term "Orthodox" may be the organizational equivalent of "Lutheran" or "Reformed". But there's a lot of variety within each.
Unfortunately, the almanac does not give details on the different Protestant denominations (US stats are far more detailed, but hardly reflective of the world as a whole). The book also lumps all Muslims together, and thus is rather useless for that part of our conversation.
Er...suddenly, I fear we may be inadvertanly hijacking this thread.
Meanwhile, back in Muslim England...
The Orthodox church is not centralized like the Roman Catholic church, and there is an independent church in each country (Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc.) Though not as doctrinally divided as the Protestants, the Orthodox aren't united under one roof. At best, the term "Orthodox" may be the organizational equivalent of "Lutheran" or "Reformed". But there's a lot of variety within each.
Unfortunately, the almanac does not give details on the different Protestant denominations (US stats are far more detailed, but hardly reflective of the world as a whole). The book also lumps all Muslims together, and thus is rather useless for that part of our conversation.
Er...suddenly, I fear we may be inadvertanly hijacking this thread.
Meanwhile, back in Muslim England...
Okay, Keenir!! I think you right about the Alevis don't consider themselves Shiites, but don't u think they are quite heavily Ali-centric ? Even they mention sayyidina Ali as a part of trinity (Allah-Muhammad-Ali )!! They can be CONSIDERED as Shiites, I think...
)!! They can be CONSIDERED as Shiites, I think...Ok, so is Alfred Emir, Malik or Sultan of Al-Angalia?
I'd think that he'd probably recognise the Caliph of Cordoba, though.
P.S. I think its time for a map, don't you?
I'd think that he'd probably recognise the Caliph of Cordoba, though.
P.S. I think its time for a map, don't you?
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Cool idea so far.
As for Crusades, if Alfredi Islam became decidely different from the mainstream Islam, with Irish-Christian monastic roots mixed with a church structure (the emir of Canterbury?), the English might be willing to crusade against the Holy Lands as well. Each King of England is also Caliph, right? So maybe the English Caliph decides that the rightful caliph, meaning him, should be ruling the Holy Lands. If there's more common practices among the Christians and Muslims ITTL and the suggestion of England becoming a haven for Jews and Christians makes it in, then England would seemingly have no problem working with the Christians on the Continent to take the Holy City. Just a suggestion if this is the way you were going. Otherwise, I don't think there'd be a crusade at all.
As for Crusades, if Alfredi Islam became decidely different from the mainstream Islam, with Irish-Christian monastic roots mixed with a church structure (the emir of Canterbury?), the English might be willing to crusade against the Holy Lands as well. Each King of England is also Caliph, right? So maybe the English Caliph decides that the rightful caliph, meaning him, should be ruling the Holy Lands. If there's more common practices among the Christians and Muslims ITTL and the suggestion of England becoming a haven for Jews and Christians makes it in, then England would seemingly have no problem working with the Christians on the Continent to take the Holy City. Just a suggestion if this is the way you were going. Otherwise, I don't think there'd be a crusade at all.
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