AHC\WI: Islamic Celts?

[Dirk]

Have a more important Brittonic migration in Galicia

But that would almost certainly butterfly OTL's Christianity, and create enough butterflies to preclude Islam.

 

[LSCatilina]

That is an interestin possibility maybe this Islamic Celtic Kingdom with capital at Bracara(Braga).

Unlikely. If it's remotly comparable to Brittany, it would be quite divided politically. Basically several little kingdoms. I would think one of the centers would be in Britonia, maybe Lugo, or Astorga, basically more in northern Galicia.

As for their islamisation, as I proposed above, it would be more likely to be a Muladi ensemble of states, similar to Banu Qasi in Ebre's valley or Ajuan's territory in southern Galicia. Less a single kingdom than an ensemble of statelets under wali/emiral supervision, possibly forming an hegemony (I doubt it, giving their location, though)
EDIT : Actually, I may have been hasty there : some of these states could have reached some local hegemony, if they reached Duero, but it would make them less "Celts".

But that would almost certainly butterfly OTL's Christianity, and create enough butterflies to preclude Islam.

How so? Briton immigration in Galicia happened in the V/VIth centuries, as for Brittany. Christianity was a thing since quite a time then.

 

[Alternate History Geek]

But that would almost certainly butterfly OTL's Christianity, and create enough butterflies to preclude Islam.

The Brythonic migration to the continent didn't occur until the 5th and 6th centuries C.E., after the Western Roman Empire had already lost control of Britain. They were fleeing as refugees from the collapse of Roman authority in Britain.

 

[LSCatilina]

Well, a reasonably large number of Britons migrated to Iberia in the early 5th century C.E., and formed new Celtic settlements in Galicia that lasted for a while; conceivably, you could have the Celts in Galicia stay a cohesive unit for longer than OTL, such that, when they eventually convert to Islam, they're one single Islamic Celtic... unit.

I don't want to be picky there, but how it's different from what I proposed above?

(Also, could you use the regular size for your posts, I'm using a small screen, and it's not helping for reading. Thanks)

 

[alex costa]

Unlikely. If it's remotly comparable to Brittany, it would be quite divided politically. Basically several little kingdoms. I would think one of the centers would be in Britonia, maybe Lugo, or Astorga, basically more in northern Galicia.

As for their islamisation, as I proposed above, it would be more likely to be a Muladi ensemble of states, similar to Banu Qasi in Ebre's valley or Ajuan's territory in southern Galicia. Less a single kingdom than an ensemble of statelets under wali/emiral supervision, possibly forming an hegemony (I doubt it, giving their location, though.

So likely not to last once Asturias comes knocking on the door.

 

[LSCatilina]

So likely not to last once Asturias comes knocking on the door.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean there.

Do you mean that it wouldn't last, as Asturias will conquer them? Well maybe so, but the OP isn't about surviving Islamized Celts. Furthermore, as Astorga could be part, in this "Brittanized" northern Galicia, of these muladi ensemble, I would think Cantabrian dynasty would have an harder time taking it over.

Critically not in one campaign : I could see some parts reverting quickly to Christianism, but places as Lugo or Astorga would have means to last, maybe up to the IXth century, clearly more if they manage to get an hegemonic presence in southern Galicia or up to Duero (sort of western Banu Qasi)

 

[Dirk]

How so? Briton immigration in Galicia happened in the V/VIth centuries, as for Brittany. Christianity was a thing since quite a time then.

Whelp, I've just been schooled by the great teacher himself. *facepalm* I was thinking of native Celtiberians and...how they migrated to Ireland before Rome was even founded...and I got it mixed up the other way round.

Carry on, then.

 

[alex costa]

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean there.

Do you mean that it wouldn't last, as Asturias will conquer them? Well maybe so, but the OP isn't about surviving Islamized Celts. Furthermore, as Astorga could be part, in this "Brittanized" northern Galicia, of these muladi ensemble, I would think Cantabrian dynasty would have an harder time taking it over.

Critically not in one campaign : I could see some parts reverting quickly to Christianism, but places as Lugo or Astorga would have means to last, maybe up to the IXth century, clearly more if they manage to get an hegemonic presence in southern Galicia or up to Duero (sort of western Banu Qasi,as unlikely it may be)

Pretty much what I meant but it's consequences on the architecture of the future site of Oporto and Braga would be interesting.

 

[LSCatilina]

Pretty much what I meant but it's consequences on the architecture of the future site of Oporto and Braga would be interesting.

I don't think you'd have that of a difference, honestly.

If we use Brittany and Banu Qasi as comparison (it's, arguably, the only ones we have), while you'd had a cultural distinctivness, you'd have too much incitative and reason for going native (not only in Visigothic Spain, but even more under Arabo-Berber domination) to allow a real Celto-Spanish or Celto-Islamic style (remember that Islamisation means Arabisation). Even more if they go to south, demographical and wealth difference would make the celtic part even less relevant.