As it says on the tin, with a PoD in the year 1945, create a good situation for the United States to see a military coup occur in the 1980s and that coup solidifies power into a legitimately strong dictatorship.
AHC : United States Military Coup in the 80s
- Thread starter TheDoofusUser
- Start date
No Civil Rights (or a less succesfull one) and more Black Panther and other guerrilla-like activity?
Maybe if the civilians are seem as too lenient, a political side (the Dixiecrats?) can start suggesting that the army is needed to stop the insurgencies.
Or then, after decades of internal fighting the elected president in 1980 have a platform of immediate peace and amnesty, enraging the opposite factions?
Maybe if the civilians are seem as too lenient, a political side (the Dixiecrats?) can start suggesting that the army is needed to stop the insurgencies.
Or then, after decades of internal fighting the elected president in 1980 have a platform of immediate peace and amnesty, enraging the opposite factions?
Never would've happened. Even if a few generals and their troops did decide to pull a coup, the rest of the military would be bound by their oath of service to remove the Putschists.
I can't think of the mechanics of this scenario , but have MacArthur and Truman stare down over nukes in Korea, and Truman loses. MacArthur overrides him, and nukes starts flying.
This sets a new standard and gives generals the idea that they can have their way over the civilian government, if they just push hard enough. If they use it again with say the Cuban Missile Crisis (if that hasn't been butterflied away by a nuclear Korea?), and oust Kennedy, now they start feeling like they're the guys really in charge.
This sets a new standard and gives generals the idea that they can have their way over the civilian government, if they just push hard enough. If they use it again with say the Cuban Missile Crisis (if that hasn't been butterflied away by a nuclear Korea?), and oust Kennedy, now they start feeling like they're the guys really in charge.
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In my opinion, the most likely scenario for a coup in America is for some very authoritarian-leaning president to attempt to take complete control of the government in a kind of self-coup fashion like what happened in Russia around the same time. This might instigate a military counter-coup to restore the democratic system however it wouldn't lead to a prolonged military backed dictatorship. From what I can tell the American military especially our high command is extremely loyal to America and especially to the democratic system I think you would need to change this drastically to get a prolonged dictatorship that does not instantly fall.
Well, for a TL I'm planning on doing, the Presidents are as follows - FDR, Truman, Mogenthau, White, H. Wallace, Taft, Dirksen, Wayne, Walker, Welch, Rockwell, Stoner, Jim Jones, Manson, coup as the military by this point has been consistently purged and meddled that now its a political tool for the President to use however they please until the military decides they have enough and takes over the Government to end the chaos by the 1980s. After all, following enough purges from a political perspective, eventually, only the fringes remain and a fringe would be able to gain a lot of influence if they're smart.
Can't see it, the US has three armies, the US Army, the Marines and the State based National Guard, three air forces, USAF, Navy and the State based Air National Guard and no national police. Also a boat load of rival intelligence agencies. Every state has its own police force.
It's hard to see them all going along with something like that. No large units are based near the capital.
It's hard to see them all going along with something like that. No large units are based near the capital.
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I think it's very implausible for the the military to establish a dictatorship. Not because they're incapable of it or even necessarily ideologically opposed.
It just does not serve them in the same way. No one figure in the military is going to have the clout necessary to hold it together without also having the stature and connections to claim legitimacy through civilian government. And within the time frame given, that is very culturally relevant to any scenario.
The only way to justify a dictatorship in this timeframe is a literally in-credible level of social collapse, like with say a massive plague that cuts through 20% of the country (just spitballing here, really), or a post-nuclear scenario. You really have to humble the United States to the breaking point to where a recognizable version of it goes that route.
If you just a want a coup, that's much more doable, it's easy to come up with a scenario where the military steps in, flexes muscle, removes a president, maybe even establishing a caretaker government. But the idea of completely destroying the present constitutional framework takes an era-ending level of destruction. Otherwise there will be a thaw because everything the military would ever desire or need, it already has and they don't have to fill out the paperwork to make it happen. It's a win-win. Military Industrial Complex ting.
It just does not serve them in the same way. No one figure in the military is going to have the clout necessary to hold it together without also having the stature and connections to claim legitimacy through civilian government. And within the time frame given, that is very culturally relevant to any scenario.
The only way to justify a dictatorship in this timeframe is a literally in-credible level of social collapse, like with say a massive plague that cuts through 20% of the country (just spitballing here, really), or a post-nuclear scenario. You really have to humble the United States to the breaking point to where a recognizable version of it goes that route.
If you just a want a coup, that's much more doable, it's easy to come up with a scenario where the military steps in, flexes muscle, removes a president, maybe even establishing a caretaker government. But the idea of completely destroying the present constitutional framework takes an era-ending level of destruction. Otherwise there will be a thaw because everything the military would ever desire or need, it already has and they don't have to fill out the paperwork to make it happen. It's a win-win. Military Industrial Complex ting.
All officer promotions need Congressional approval. They used to pay attention to who made general, not sure if that's still done. Post military employment opportunities will get adversely impacted by getting involved in a coup.
prani
Banned
When Nixon took the US off the gold standard back in 73, let's just the transition to a floating exchange rate mechanism is botched and thus billions of dollars in trade surplus held by Europeans and Japanese floods back to the US causing runaway inflation leading to severe recession and depression which causes civil unrest to get more violent and results in a coup in 1980.
Many people forget how precarious this were from 1973-82 things could have and should have gone crazy. IMO it was the semi conductor technology revolution that enabled a boost in productivity which caused the markets to calm down and confidence in the system was restored.....but its not a given...things could have gone wrong due to factors beyond the control of the government.
But again as others pointed i really doubt the Coup would overthrow the constitution of the United states, the coup would rather be justified to defend and protect the constitutional order and would have a lot of collaborators within the civilian government and after a couple of years of clamping down on riots and insurrections the military will hand over the government to the elected president.
Many people forget how precarious this were from 1973-82 things could have and should have gone crazy. IMO it was the semi conductor technology revolution that enabled a boost in productivity which caused the markets to calm down and confidence in the system was restored.....but its not a given...things could have gone wrong due to factors beyond the control of the government.
But again as others pointed i really doubt the Coup would overthrow the constitution of the United states, the coup would rather be justified to defend and protect the constitutional order and would have a lot of collaborators within the civilian government and after a couple of years of clamping down on riots and insurrections the military will hand over the government to the elected president.
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Yep, you need a scenario where two branches of the Federal government are widely perceived to have overthrown the constitution and forcing their will through against the will of the population and the third branch. Really, one of them has to be the Executive Branch, since that's where the Commander-in-Chief sits, and if they're supporting the coup then it's not really a coup. The other probably needs to be the Legislative Branch, given how the US is governed in practice. Technically you could do all three branches, but that's harder to achieve.
So, you have the President and Congress turn to radical parlimentarianism, or the King of Eswatini is sworn in as President, or something equally horrifying. The Supreme Court convenes under military protection somewhere and rules their actions unconstitutional. The military, armed with authority from the Supreme Court, sets about removing them from power, supervises the next set of elections, and generally restores civilian authority. Whichever branches of the Federal government are seen as having supported the unconstitutional regime are dismantled. At a guess, that's more likely to be the FBI than the Fisheries and Wildlife Service, but you never know.
The exact flavour of the unconstitutional regime is inherently political and left as an exercise for the reader.
I mean, you can have a merger of both extremes, a military coup that takes power supposedly to preserve constitutional order and transfer to a civilian government - only for the new "President" elected under dubious circumstances to become the real dictator. Certainly the US military doesn't have the kind of prestige and constitutional position to run the country long term, but once they have temporary control over the three branches of government all the tools needed to make a permanent dictatorship are right there waiting to be used. Stack the Supreme Court, pick one of your own for the Presidency, fill Congress with supporters, get stage managed constitutional conventions to add a few useful amendments to the constitution... once that's done the regime won't even need to be military anymore.
Remember, Pinochet surrendered power only after saddling Chile with a constitution that made fully repealing most of his policies near impossible.
Remember, Pinochet surrendered power only after saddling Chile with a constitution that made fully repealing most of his policies near impossible.
US Navy 23 year veteran. Served during your time frame. Not. Going. To. Happen. Your oath is to protect and defend the constitution. Not install some tinpot dictator. We were all smart enough to follow all LEGAL orders. Killing US civilians inside the US would probably not be legal. Overthrowing Congress would probably not be legal.
It'd have to be pretty bad for the military to consider something as insane as a coup. Like worse than the Civil War bad. Hard time coming up with this, outside of a nuclear exchange
Honestly a small nuclear exchange would be a pretty likely way for this to come about the sheer chaos this would cause and the possible toppling of federal power would make it necessary for the military to step in a restore order.
A nuclear exchange is the most plausible route for this. While there is absolutely zero chance of the US Army storming the White House to install a General into the Oval Office the idea that in the confines of Mount Weather or Cheyenne Mountain with Washington a smoking ruin that the President/legitimate civilian authority if the President didn't make it could get sidelined is much more plausible, not least because you would need fewer people to comply and being pent up underground is probably going to fray at people's rationality sufficiently that the unthinkable becomes thinkable.
Actually I think a Civil War could do it. That it didn't happen OTL doesn't mean it couldn't or wouldn't.