AHC: United Germany and Austria post 1945

Napoleon53

Napoleon53

I have nary a clue as to how plausible this is, but I thought it was an interesting idea. I'd guess this is very, very unlikely, but that's the fun part of AHCs!

With a POD preferably after 1945, reunite Germany and Austria in some form. It does not have to be a Gross Deutschland wank in any way; it could even be a horrible dystopian scenario (Hot Cold War, global economic collapse, etc). It can also be any form of government, from Monarchy to Communism. Whatever you think works best with the POD.

Have fun, chaps/chapettes! :D
 
Napoleon53

Napoleon53

Xgentis said:
I don't think it's possible German reunification was already a big deal for France and Britain.
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Well, is there something that could make Britain and France helpless or unable to interfere or stop it? Economic collapse, maybe? A "France has riots in the streets and Britain is teetering on removing the monarchy" type scenario?
 

drakle

Banned
Maybe Soviets are more successful and take up to the Rhine. They then Make Germany and Austria a SSR as well as Poland or make it a buffer state to block off the USSR from the American dogs.
 
Clandango

Clandango

They would need to be unbelievably more successful or the Americans and British decided to stop months earlier than planned.
 

MattII

At Austrian insistence prior to 1933 is about the best I can come up with, and I have no ideas for motive.
 
Meadow

Meadow

Not quite what you had in mind, but I can perhaps buy a much more western eastern border for West Germany because of a faster Soviet advance - the resulting sliver of Germany is united with Austria to beef it up and give the German people hope.

Might be a candidate for 'real life is not a Paradox Game' but I'd be interested in people's thoughts.
 

TheNordicBrit

In previous discussions the possibility of Austria being split into Soviet-puppet East Austria, and West Austria. If that happens then most of the Austrian population, Vienna and, if I'm correct, a lot of the countries economy is in the Soviet half. So the far weaker West Austria might, out of necessity, be merged again with Germany.

What would happen with East Austria I've no idea, it would either be merged with East Germany itself, or we could see some kind of 'Danubian Confederation' which could include it. I'd think an East German and East Austrian merger is more likely though.

I'm unsure if such a merger would be sustainable though, but I expect it would be, just nationalist Austrian parties would be quite strong - stronger than Bavarian ones are.
 
Clandango

Clandango

Eastern Austria would be ransacked. The Soviets were given half the reparations and resources extracted from the Ruhr and the entirety of those in their own occupation zones in Germany. Come to think of it, why not have part of the Sudetenland attach the Soviet portions of Austria and Germany? Might they be changes to their border with Poland?
 

Onkel Willie

Have the Soviet Union refuse to give up their occupation zone in Austria for whatever reason and then have the Communist Party of Austria hijack the 1950 Austrian general strikes, leading to Western fears of Austria going fully communist. Austria unites with the FRG with Western approval as a result and by way of Soviet response 'East Austria' becomes a weird exclave of the GDR. Come reunification, Germany and Austria form one country.
 
anotherlurker

anotherlurker

-soviets set up an "eastern austria" in their occupation zone
-due to large imbalance of populations, "western austria" becomes part of bavaria (again)
-once the wall comes down eastern austria, which would be as prosperous as czechoslovakia, petitions for a new anschluss
-austria gets reunited as a full german state

prosperity is the only reason why those who consider austria to be a german state are below 5% of the population.
 

TheNordicBrit

Clandango said:
Eastern Austria would be ransacked. The Soviets were given half the reparations and resources extracted from the Ruhr and the entirety of those in their own occupation zones in Germany. Come to think of it, why not have part of the Sudetenland attach the Soviet portions of Austria and Germany? Might they be changes to their border with Poland?
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I can't see the Soviets attaching the Sudetenland to East Germany and East Austria. Only possible way I could see it happening is if the Czech's do something to really annoy Stalin, but even then I can't see the Sudetenland being split off.

Poland would be interesting, IOTL Poland was lucky to keep its independence as it was a useful tool for the USSR to use in the UN, as it gave them another vote. So I think you'd have to see the Soviets with another puppet state that would give it votes for any major changes with Poland.
 
V-J

V-J

Meadow said:
Not quite what you had in mind, but I can perhaps buy a much more western eastern border for West Germany because of a faster Soviet advance - the resulting sliver of Germany is united with Austria to beef it up and give the German people hope.

Might be a candidate for 'real life is not a Paradox Game' but I'd be interested in people's thoughts.
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Honestly, I think the best plausible outcome is the Voralberg and the Tyrol becoming *West German states because of a more significant Soviet zone of control in Austria. Even that's very much pushing it in the plausibility stakes; I think the WAllies would be much more likely to create an alpine Luxembourg rather than partially validate 1938. But, with an alternate, more tense early Cold War, and maybe if they somehow become seriously worried about Communist influence of this new frontier statelet, who knows.

Pushing it though, very much pushing it. Anything encompassing territory east of Salzburg, I think you can completely forget about it. You'd just get a West Austria.
 
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Clandango

Clandango

V-J said:
Honestly, I think the best plausible outcome is the Voralberg and the Tyrol becoming *West German states because of a more significant Soviet zone of control in Austria. Even that's very much pushing it in the plausibility stakes; I think the WAllies would be much more likely to create an alpine Luxembourg rather than partially validate 1938. But, with an alternate, more tense early Cold War, and maybe if they somehow become seriously worried about Communist influence of this new frontier statelet, who knows.

Pushing it though, very much pushing it. Anything encompassing territory east of Salzburg, I think you can completely forget about it. You'd just get a West Austria.
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Why not try to give both to Switzerland for the heck of it?
 
V-J

V-J

Clandango said:
Why not try to give both to Switzerland for the heck of it?
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If putting the kibosh on independence for the area does come about because of worries about its political viability, much better to push for absorption by a western-leaning Germany than a neutral Switzerland. Besides which, I can see a few reasons why Switzerland would want no truck with that.
 
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black angel

black angel

the only awkwardness about West Austria becoming a German state is what happens to West Vienna? an American run out post behind the lines? a German city (like West Berlin) do the allies pull out to save Berlin in 1948?
 

Zoidberg12

Not sure how plasuible or not these scenarios are, but here are my ideas on how to make this work.

The Soviets occupy all of Austria during WWII, and afterwards Austria becomes a Soviet puppet state and a part of the Warsaw Pact. Come the late 1980's, Austria undergoes a democratic revouliton like the rest of the Soviet puppets in Eastern Europe. When the Berlin Wall falls, Austia re-joins Germany as well as East Germany.

In terms of a more crisis related scenario, mabye WWIII occurs in the late 1940's or 1950's. The war lasts for a few years, with only one or two Soviet puppets liberated. With the Soviets still a force to be reckoned with (annexing Poland as an SSR at the Peace Conference) Germany and Austira are reunified to act as a buffer against the Soviets.

Another crisis scenario could be after a hypothetical fall of the EU, with the two countries reunifieing in an effort for Germany to still remain a great power in a shattered European continent.
 

Superman

Soviets take more of Austria than their OTL occupation zone, and refuse to give it up. Austria, like Germany, is split into East and West Austria. To protect West Austria, the Western Allies merge it into West Germany. When the Berlin Wall comes down and the Germanies are reunited, East Austria joins as well.
 
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