With a PoD of your choosing (though the less early it is, the better), have the lands of Italia and Iberia switch roles in the Medieval era. Spain must be a land divided between various republican city states and small kingdoms who compete against each other and becomes the birthplace of the Renaissance. Italy, meanwhile, must be a land divided between a handful of kingdoms (You can include a small kingdom to mirror OTL Navarre) and must have a culture similar to that of OTL Iberia. If you need to, You can have an POD early enough to butterfly the islamic invasions (or at least, the islamic invasions of Spain), while having some other Middle-eastern/North African power or even some Byzantine rump state taking the same role in South Italy that the Ummayads did in Iberia.
AHC: Switch the fates of Medieval Italian and Iberian Peninsulas?
- Thread starter Conan
- Start date
Minus the "republican city states", this is OTL. Much of the basis of the Renaissance comes from the translations of works from Arabic from the Arabic libraries into Latin.
Toledo School of Translators - Wikipedia
If you mean stuff relating to art...just have contemporary Spanish artists be more famous.
Probably avoid the conquest of the Kingdom of Lombardy by the Franks. That should serve as a reasonable Castile analogue
It just needs Spain not to consolidate. The various Taifas were basically independent.
Taifa - Wikipedia
The hardest bit is probably having city states in Iberia- it’s just not as urbanised as Italy. Taifas small enough might have essentially the same territory as a city state but does it count if it doesn’t have the city council as the highest body of the state?
Apart from that, something of the sort might end up happening in a tl I’ve been mulling over for a while.
Apart from that, something of the sort might end up happening in a tl I’ve been mulling over for a while.
Urbanism in Spain is possible if it doesn't go Visigothic, which saw a lot of depopulation and people movement out of the urban centers on the Mediterranean coast and in the south. Western Iberia however never really developed in a similar fashion. I think Spain could be an urban conglomeration of city states if the Roman collapse saw essentially a Hispano-Roman aristocracy balkanize power amongst itself and claim different areas based on diocesan boundaries in existence. The Suebi being tucked into Galicia is still probably doable in this timeline but the Visigothic Kingdom is not
I would like to specify a certain part of my post since I feel like I was little vague there
Which is why I included this little bit.
Though, You can have duchies in the south of the Iberian peninsula like those south of the Papal states IOTL. If You really want, You could even have Peasant republics in the Pyrennes and other Northern Iberian mountains that parallel the Alpine Republics of OTL (I know that they weren't really part of Italy IOTL, I just feel like the Alps and Pyrennes mountain ranges would be affected by this swap as a conequence), though that's probably kinda pushing it, isn't it?
Sorry for being a bother and adding this addendum after the fact, I just felt like I really needed to clarify.
By this, I mean something like how Spain was almost completely taken over by the Ummayads and related peoples save for areas like Asturias, only to be slowly retaken by Christendom in the reconquista and the culture that would result from that. So like, Conquistadors equivalents, spanish inquisition equivalents, the middle eastern/north african cultural influence etc.
Which is why I included this little bit.
And when it comes to 'republican city states' that can include Thalassocratic republics like those of Italy proper (Venice, Genoa, Amalfi etc) and communes and alliances of city states like the League of Lombardy.
Though, You can have duchies in the south of the Iberian peninsula like those south of the Papal states IOTL. If You really want, You could even have Peasant republics in the Pyrennes and other Northern Iberian mountains that parallel the Alpine Republics of OTL (I know that they weren't really part of Italy IOTL, I just feel like the Alps and Pyrennes mountain ranges would be affected by this swap as a conequence), though that's probably kinda pushing it, isn't it?
Sorry for being a bother and adding this addendum after the fact, I just felt like I really needed to clarify.
Interesting.Minus the "republican city states", this is OTL. Much of the basis of the Renaissance comes from the translations of works from Arabic from the Arabic libraries into Latin.
Toledo School of Translators - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
If you mean stuff relating to art...just have contemporary Spanish artists be more famous.
Probably avoid the conquest of the Kingdom of Lombardy by the Franks. That should serve as a reasonable Castile analogue
It just needs Spain not to consolidate. The various Taifas were basically independent.
Taifa - Wikipedia
I look forward to seeing this timeline.
So would this Balkanisation happen before or after the Suebi arrive? Also, would the Visigoths be staying in Southern Gaul in such a scenario?
It'd have to be after, as part of the breakup of the WRE. The Suebi we're settled in the early 5th century. The Visigoths were put in Aquitaine in 418 but it was a much more fluid situation in reality and took a while to consolidate. I think basically a situation where the Vandals never takes Africa is the best way to bring this about as it wouldn't have caused the massive disruption to the eastern Iberian coastline.
But then again, if Africa does not fall, the Empire itself probably lasts quite a bit longer as it's grain and taxes propped up the Italian Imperial project almost completely, just as Illyria did for soldiers.