AHC: Substantial Nineteenth-Century (Or Early Twentieth-Century) Christian Settlement in the Levant/Holy Land

[Hanniba'al]

In the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, there were a few attempts by European Christians to settle in the Holy Land or Palestine, whether by the initiative of religious sects such as the German Templer Society or through settlement organizations such as The German Association of the Holy Land. They never came to much—the Templers only numbered a few thousand before WWII and the subsequent formation of Israel effectively ended them as a community, while the German Association of the Holy Land never managed to send any colonists at all, instead becoming a charitable organization that supported Christian pilgrims. What would it take to make a similar movement more successful? Both of the organizations mentioned were German, but would a similar movement in another power more interested in the Levant, such as France or Russia, have been more fruitful? How would Christian settlers have interacted with Jewish settlers, the existing Palestinian population, and possibly other groups such as Greeks or Armenians that might be drawn to a Christian state in the area?

Some other threads related to the topic—it's hard to find stuff that isn't about the Outremer.

Challenge: Significant European Settlement in Palestine

In the 1800s there were a smattering of European Christian sects that set out to colonize the holy land. They never got that big and mostly faded away in the chaos of the first half of the 20th century. Could these efforts have been more successful and produced a significant European Christian...

www.alternatehistory.com

Christian Israel

What if Christians tried and succeeded in making a Christian state in the Holy Land (assuming the Jewish movement of the OTL is not there)? Their motives could be to escape the "growing secularization of Europe and its materialialism," leading to a "get back to our roots movement" by having...

www.alternatehistory.com

Christian Zionism

So, could a Christian Zionist movement ever arisen, i.e., have some nations (or nations) primarily Chrisitian decide that the Ottoman lands around Jerusalem should be populated by Christians and a Christian nation established there?

www.alternatehistory.com

What if there is a American Christian settlement movement in Israel?

What if American Christians started a Kibbutz style settlement in Israel after the creation of the nation in 1948 and grew to become a sizable community by 2015? The POD would be the in the fifties. Let's say that in the United States spurred on by the revival movement of Billy Graham and...

www.alternatehistory.com

 

[Nivek]

Nothing, ottoman empire banned it after they disturbed the locals

 

[youraveragekomodo]

Nothing, ottoman empire banned it after they disturbed the locals

Pretty much. IIRC, the early aliyahs are very pro-Ottoman, the local Arabs are happy selling overpriced land to the zionists, and Ottomans saw them as loyal tax-paying subjects. It wasn't until British Mandate + Balfour Declaration + mass Jewish migration to Palestine in 1920's that finally broke the lid between Jews and Arabs in the region.

In contrast, the Christian settlers would probably seen by the Ottomans as troublesome at best, and neo-Crusaders at worst. Their role would also heavily tied to European powers aswell, giving the Ottomans an even bigger headache since Europeans could just declare a war against them anytime to 'protect' Christian subjects.

What would it take to make a similar movement more successful

I think you needs a Qing-like concessions to the Ottomans for achieving this. Thing is, after the Crimean War, western European powers like Britain and France already support the Ottomans because they see Russia as a more dangerous rival.

 

[Hanniba'al]

Nothing, ottoman empire banned it after they disturbed the locals

You have any reading on it? Not doubting that it happened, just wondering what the details of it were like.

Pretty much. IIRC, the early aliyahs are very pro-Ottoman, the local Arabs are happy selling overpriced land to the zionists, and Ottomans saw them as loyal tax-paying subjects.


In contrast, the Christian settlers would probably seen by the Ottomans as troublesome at best, and neo-Crusaders at worst. Their role would also heavily tied to European powers aswell, giving the Ottomans an even bigger headache since Europeans could just declare a war against them anytime to 'protect' Christian subjects.

Yeah, I don't see Christian settlement flying under the radar in the way that early Zionist settlement did—either the numbers remain small but significant, the Ottomans successfully keep them out, or outside intervention forces the Ottomans to allow Christian settlement in the area against their wishes. I don't think any of those are impossible, given that there was both settlement and widespread public interest in facilitating settlement in Palestine IOTL.

I think you needs a Qing-like concessions to the Ottomans for achieving this.

Probably, for something resembling a Christian Israel, though I think that there is some room for settlement without weakening the Ottomans severely, and that might help to facilitate a later and larger movement of settlers in the way that the first Aliyah and even the Jewish immigration preceding it helped to lay the foundation for the later, larger waves of immigration that succeeded it.

Thing is, after the Crimean War, western European powers like Britain and France already support the Ottomans because they see Russia as a more dangerous rival.

What do you think might help to facilitate a different geopolitical situation? I could see greater Russian success at the expense of the Ottomans or a more reactionary and inept Ottoman Empire that fails to reform and deal with the Western Europeans effectively leading to a pronounced Ottoman decline that would either prevent them from resisting settlement effectively or allow a foreign power to take control of the area directly. An outside possibility might be a different resolution to the Oriental Crisis—Ali came pretty close to retaining control over most of present-day Israel/Palestine and Jordan, along with the Hejaz and southern Lebanon. Ali's Egypt would likely have more control over the situation in the area, but, IIRC, they were fairly open to European immigration IOTL.

 

[ramones1986]

I guess the target areas for a hypothetical migration, which realistically is tough at best, would be Beqaa Valley and western Galilee, particularly the region around Nazareth.

 

[Beatriz]

EBR’s Separated at Birth had a British-German-Russian administered Holy Land with both Christian and Jewish (later the State of Judea) settlement

 

[Hanniba'al]

I guess the target areas for a hypothetical migration, which realistically is tough at best, would be Beqaa Valley and western Galilee, particularly the region around Nazareth.

Wasn't the Bekaa Valley fairly densely populated? I agree that the Galilee would probably be the foremost destination, along with the area from Bethlehem to Ramallah.

 

[KOLO cript]

the best country for this i think that is Italy right before wwi when they had a war with he turks, maybe they could take advantage and claim "special rights" over the Levant, like a special economic area to Italy explore and eventually control the region like the british and french controls the Egypt, after that they can try to use these christians communities as a base of their power projection in the Levant, slowly colonizing the land

 

[kasumigenx]

Perhaps if Italy gets Palestine, the House of Savoy do have some claims to Palestine, but they are not the senior claimants, it is the Jacobite claimants.

 

[Beatriz]

Italian Palestine is a likely route, but what happens afterwards? A Christian *Israel? Or even the Turtledove *Worldwar route of a Christian-Jewish Israel

 

[Hanniba'al]

the best country for this i think that is Italy right before wwi when they had a war with he turks, maybe they could take advantage and claim "special rights" over the Levant

That would be interesting, though I would wonder how much of a priority it would be relative to its intended OTL sphere in the southern Aegean and Anatolia. Perhaps it could form part of a triangular axis between those two areas and Libya, with the intention of allowing Italian domination, real or imagined, in the Eastern Mediterranean. At the very least, Italy would have the best demographics to attempt a settler colonial project in the Middle East out of any of the powers interested in it, with the possible exception of Russia.

Italian Palestine is a likely route, but what happens afterwards?

There are a lot of possibilities—you might see an Italian-dominated "Outremer" administered as an Italian province or two, peaceful independence in a decolonization wave, an alt-Israel establishing itself after an attempt at annexing the area to a Muslim state, or even the area fighting for its independence after it becomes alienated from the Italian government.

A Christian *Israel? Or even the Turtledove *Worldwar route of a Christian-Jewish Israel

The religious character of the state depends on how established the Christian and Jewish presences are relative to each other in the area, in my view. In the case of a very early dissolution of the Ottoman Empire and subsequent mass settlement by a determined colonial power, before most of the Aliyah, mass Jewish settlement in the area is likely prevented by a lack of free land and likely impossibility of Jewish demographics in the area allowing for the creation of the Jewish state. At the most extreme, they might end up expelled and forgotten like the Templers were. On the other hand, if mass Christian settlement picks up in the latter half of the nineteenth century, possibly under the auspices of a Muslim power or independent state in the region, Jews will have established enough of a presence in the area to be politically and demographically irrelevant in any future state, disregarding forcible expulsion.
There is also the Muslim population to consider—with two major settler groups in the area, they might be pressured even harder than in OTL, but they might also be able to play the two groups off of each other for important concessions. Even after the Nakba, a fifth of Israel proper is Arab, largely Muslim. If, instead of the other four-fifths of the population being Jewish, there is a somewhat even split between Jewish and Christian, they become much more relevant. Christian sentiments on the issue of ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian Arabs might also be different than those of the Jews OTL, especially with a sizable portion of the Palestinian Arab population being Christian. At the same time, Christian settlers might seek to protect only Christian Palestinians while supporting the displacement of Muslim Palestinians.