AHC Reverse present-day Germany and Russia!

[Brady Kj]

The challenge is, with a post-WWI POD, to reverse the political ideologies, powers, and behaviors of present-day Germany and Russia. That is, I want to see a Russian economic and political power house that protects the privacy and labor rights of its citizens more than most countries, and a Germany that is unusually conservative on social issues for a western nation, rather authoritarian, and is right now taking over a portion of a neighboring country.
How would this happen?

 

[Lapsed Pacifist]

How about Germany attempting to annex either East Prussia, Pomerania, or Silesia from Poland?

 

[Brady Kj]

That's good. What sort of POD is required to make that happen?

 

[SvoHljott]

It'd help if there was still a large German minority or even majority in Silesia/Pomerania.

 

[Brady Kj]

OK, that would help, but it's not enough. There are German populations in France, Switzerland, and even Spain. Germany hasn't invaded any of them lately. It doesn't seem to have the inclination. What can we do about that?

 

[MrHaakwood]

Okay I try and as usual my tries are shaky.

Germany wins ww1 and creates a Mitteleuropa puppet system in Eastern Europe. The prewar Wilhelmine society stays: Authorian and the Prussian elites stay at the helm, while the SPD is curtailed. In Russia the Reds dont win, but a shaky white dictatorship prevails. After some years a extremist, revanchist wing comes to power and starts ww2 by invading Eastern Europe to recreate the Russian Empire in its 1914 form. The White Army conducts numerous massacers on their way to Berlin.
Like in OTL the first phase works, but in the end, the German Reichswehr goes on a counter attack against the Russian steamroller and wins. Post war we see the Mitteleuropa system stays and look much like the Warsaw pact. And, who would have thought it? In 90 the system breaks down and leaves many Germans in Eastern European States, like some of the Baltic Nations, parts of Poland and CS.
After twenty years of Self finding the German Empire is back and wants to protect the Germans living in other states. While these states choose Russia for protection.

Voila, a "little" bit of handwaving, but tell me what you think.

 

[Dunning Kruger]

In the late 1960's, Russia pulls a China becoming an economic power somewhere around 1990. In the course of modernizing, the Soviet Union peacefully disbands but retains its economic might and does not suffer through the 1990s. Meanwhile, the West struggles to pull out of the stagflation of the 1970's and Germany elects a right wing version of Thatcher and Reagan with the social and political course unchanged in the 90's or 00's.

Personally, I believe these scenarios are highly unlikely, particularly with Russia. But seems to be within the realm of plausibility.

 

[Urban fox]

In the late 1960's, Russia pulls a China becoming an economic power somewhere around 1990. In the course of modernizing, the Soviet Union peacefully disbands but retains its economic might and does not suffer through the 1990s. Meanwhile, the West struggles to pull out of the stagflation of the 1970's and Germany elects a right wing version of Thatcher and Reagan with the social and political course unchanged in the 90's or 00's.

Personally, I believe these scenarios are highly unlikely, particularly with Russia. But seems to be within the realm of plausibility.

If the U.S.S.R did better than OTL it wouldnt fall apart. Still your best bet would be avoiding WW1, the Russian Civil War, High Stalinism & WW2.

Pre-WW1 German fear of Russia bcoming stronger was one of the main reasons they chose to go to war in 1914. Maybe having Nicky the Fool getting removed from power during the uprisings in 1905 & having a more democratic Russian goverment in place would be the best start.

 

[Dunning Kruger]

If the U.S.S.R did better than OTL it wouldnt fall apart. Still your best bet would be avoiding WW1, the Russian Civil War, High Stalinism & WW2.

Pre-WW1 German fear of Russia bcoming stronger was one of the main reasons they chose to go to war in 1914. Maybe having Nicky the Fool getting removed from power during the uprisings in 1905 & having a more democratic Russian goverment in place would be the best start.

I am not sure a 1905 POD is sufficient short of butterflies so massive it turns it into alternate reality rather than alternate history. Germany was so far ahead economically by then and Russia so far behind everyone. Even if Germany implodes, getting Russia to become an economic superpower is difficult. I think you probably need to a pre-German unification and earlier freeing of the serfs in Russia. Maybe the Napoleanic Wars go differently.

 

[Brady Kj]

Technically, I asked for a post-WWI POD, but I'm open to anything.

Now, TO91320, if Russia "pulls a China", that would mean it would succeed by demonstrating economic competence but use that competence to sell a very low wage labor force, without the protections of workers' rights that make Germany great. So, that story would need some work.

 

[AussieHawker]

What about the Nazi's winning WW2 on the eastern front and a peace in the West leaving them with Mainland Europe in their Grasp. They massacre and spread German settlers until they collapse in the 70s from Economic problems and rebellion. Russia rises back up as a semi Socialist state but with it's west ravaged.

Germany after it recovers try to grab a state which have a large German minority.

 

[Brady Kj]

Sure. Can you flesh out what happens to Russia? That goes for everyone, I suppose. The changes to Russia no doubt are harder than the changes to Germany.