Your mission is to reverse the fate of Cuba and the Philippines after the Spanish-American War. That means Cuba getting annexed and the Philippines being made a protectorate. Puerto Rico can be either.
AHC: Reverse Cuba and the Philippines
- Thread starter Doctor Evulz
- Start date
A US ship explodes in Manila instead of Havana. The US will then have the casus belli to free the Philippines instead of Cuba, and there you have it.
The US actually had an interest in annexing Cuba up until the Spanish-American War. The casus belli of Cuban Independence pretty much shot that dream down.
The US actually had an interest in annexing Cuba up until the Spanish-American War. The casus belli of Cuban Independence pretty much shot that dream down.
1st Philippine Republic negotiates with the Americans to have a naval bases on the Philippines in exchange for them protecting them. Gives America its position in the East and the Philippines survives as an independent republic protected by America and in its sphere of influence.
Driftless
Donor
The Germans make a harder push for the Philippines after Manila Bay, and the US fleet can't keep them at bay by themselves. Dewey/Taft? cut a deal with Aguinaldo & co for bases & trade deals in return for helping the Filipinos toss the Germans out. Alliance rather than annexation.
One of the main reasons for the US annexing the whole Philippines is because of the possibility of the islands ending up like Qing China, a pie sliced into several pieces. Germany might not get Manila, but they could opt for Visayas or Mindanao as an alternative.
CthulhuFhtagn
Banned
No Teller Amendment. Honestly, it's kind of weird that we annexed the Philippines but not Cuba in OTL. It would have made much more sense to take Cuba and leave the Philippines. Cuba was closer, smaller, more profitable, and culturally more similar.
Not really. The mood in the US was generally fairly pro-Cuban, and many of the Yellow Journalists of the time were agitating for Cuban independence. Plus, the labor unions in the US were also tied pretty closely to the Cubans.
The whole reason the Maine was in Cuba was because the US had much more vested in what happened there than in the Philippines, due to the proximity to Florida. They were very concerned that the violence in the island might damage US investments further, and they were determined that either Cuba would remain Spanish or that Cuba would be in the US sphere somehow. Given that 6 decades later, human civilization nearly ended with a foreign threat got a foothold on that island, that was a fairly prescient concern.
The US didn't care much about the Philippines until they managed to sink the Spanish fleet and realized that nothing was stopping them from taking the islands, so they did.
So, in summation, if you want the US to annex Cuba and liberate the Philippines, you'd have to change things much earlier than the war.
LordKalvert
Banned
The Americans eventually made the Philippines a protectorate granting them self government to end the Philippine insurrection. America was reluctant to take the Philippines but really didn't know what to do with them-
The Philippines couldn't be given independence since they couldn't defend themselves. It was either take them or give them back to Spain. Given America's attitude towards Spain after the war, that proved impossible though the Senate vote was very close
As for Cuba- why bother with annexation? America was predominant in the Western Hemisphere and no power would try to take them. Better to let them govern themselves rather than take it over
The Philippines couldn't be given independence since they couldn't defend themselves. It was either take them or give them back to Spain. Given America's attitude towards Spain after the war, that proved impossible though the Senate vote was very close
As for Cuba- why bother with annexation? America was predominant in the Western Hemisphere and no power would try to take them. Better to let them govern themselves rather than take it over
Driftless
Donor
The indecision, or more like seat-of-the-pants reaction following the U.S. Navy's defeat of the Spanish at Manila Bay, directly lead to the very destructive Philippine-American War 1899-1902+ That cost 4,000 US lives and over 200,000 Filipinos - mostly civilians
You can make arguments that for some, they thought they were protecting the Filipinos from another round of European Imperialism, others saw it as an opportunity for us to easily acquire our own empire, and others saw it from the narrow focus of just protecting and extending the naval victory.
I doubt many Filipinos felt the annexation was a favorable development.
IF following Manila Bay, the arrangement was made as an alliance in return for naval base rights and other commercial perqs, it may have proved very beneficial for both sides.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine–American_War
You can make arguments that for some, they thought they were protecting the Filipinos from another round of European Imperialism, others saw it as an opportunity for us to easily acquire our own empire, and others saw it from the narrow focus of just protecting and extending the naval victory.
I doubt many Filipinos felt the annexation was a favorable development.
IF following Manila Bay, the arrangement was made as an alliance in return for naval base rights and other commercial perqs, it may have proved very beneficial for both sides.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine–American_War
American interest in Cuban had been more or less secured after the Span-Am War, so it'll be difficult for them to justify annexation, which could earn the ire of the Cuban independentists and the Southern States. But the Philippines presented some once in a lifetime opportunity for the US to finally gain their own foothold in the China market, instead of lurking around ports under the jurisdiction of other great powers.
In a relatively practical POV, the US didn't need to annex the whole islands. Why waste men and money against the people that's prepared to fight to the last man to preserve their freedom (some historians even claimed that the Fil-Am War was the US first taste of a Vietnam scenario)? They could just let them be, make some economic agreements with them, get some ports, etc. and voila, they've got themselves a permanent presence in the Pacific without too much blood. Heck they could even convince the Brits to recognize the Republic and establish relations hoping to have Germany (or Japan) to back down from doing anything funny (although that may be a long shot).
In a relatively practical POV, the US didn't need to annex the whole islands. Why waste men and money against the people that's prepared to fight to the last man to preserve their freedom (some historians even claimed that the Fil-Am War was the US first taste of a Vietnam scenario)? They could just let them be, make some economic agreements with them, get some ports, etc. and voila, they've got themselves a permanent presence in the Pacific without too much blood. Heck they could even convince the Brits to recognize the Republic and establish relations hoping to have Germany (or Japan) to back down from doing anything funny (although that may be a long shot).
At that time the Philippines is disintegrating it will end up dismembered by natives or by the Powers like Germany.
Luzon would remain under the provisional republic of katipunan aka 'Katagalugan' while visayas and mindanao will be under their provisional republics one of them is the "visayas republic".
Luzon is wanted by the Americans..I heard..they might get it and the Germans and Brits get the rest
OTL, Had the Aguinaldo captured Manila before the Spanish surrendered to the Americans, the US wont have any ports to unload their troops.
It is much easier to spot a surprise war and attack by Americans if they suddenly land troops rather than like OTL the Americans simply crossed San Juan del monte bridge much like how the Imperial Japanese crafted the Mukden Incident to start a war or create a Causus Belli.
Once Manila is in possession by the rebels, there is nothing the Spanish can offer to surrender to the Americans as the rest of the Philippines is controlled by the rebels. So, the Americans would have to settle for protectorate status.
Well, these few regions can try to secede. The issue is if they can maintain status quo. Malolos Republic controlled the navy or whatsoever left of the Spanish Navy. The government also controlled majority of the population of the Philippines. The Malolos republic can raise 100k men while your local provinces seceding have that same or lower population than the opposing army with your army having no or minimal rifles whatsoever. Your opponents have also better and well educated generals compared to you. You got also the issue of loyalty of your populace if they are more loyal to your seceding province or Malolos Republic. It is simple reality of warfare, you can try but the question is if you can succeed.
It is pure imagination that civil war is because some or one provinces seceded. The only way that Civil war will happen is if Luna or Aguinaldo or anyone in the army fights among themselves. Or if you got a PoD that will butterfly away anything the resembles OTL 1890s Philippines.
There is a thread about the secessionists.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=258584
In 1890s, Visayas has little resources when they become independent. They dont have the population nor the talent pool in the 1890s as compared to the government in Luzon when they start fighting Spain or the USA or any Great power. Even unity is out the of the question since Visayas was anything but unified as a Region in 1898, you got the Cebuanos, Ilocanos, Warays, etc.
That thread is even purely ASB. Even this paraphrase "During these periods, locals were forced to pay tributes and execute symbolic acts of "obedience" to the Tagalog-led Republic through putting up lanterns at night." is a product of imagination rather that something plausible or possible.
The author is purely sentimental not recognizing that Malolos republic was parliamentary and federal in form. Not only that, power back in those did not rest with Aguinaldo, although they recognized the national government, but power rested on the localities. The national government created a framework for national policies which each Visayan representative had a say on. This aint 20st Century OTL Philippines nor even the same constitution where Marcos or Marcos like has that kind of power mentioned by the author.