AHC: Other countries adopt Nazi view on tobacco

[Richard V]

It took decades after the fall of Nazi Germany before it was widely accepted that cigarettes cause cancer. The Third Reich embraced the idea from the start, with the view that smoking harmed the physical well being of the Aryan race, therefore the well being of the state. Hitler was notorious for his opposition to members of the party smoking. Of course this program was discredited and discontinued after German defeat.

How can prohibition on cigarettes gain popularity elsewhere despite OTL end of Nazi Germany?

 

[Ultimate Paragon]

Maybe have scientists in another country analyze their data and find the conclusions accurate, with the exception of the racism.

 

[Richard V]

Allied countries would be hard pressed to see pass the Nazi connection. Especially as tobacco was a well loved habit and the Nazis did so much pseudo-science that everyone pretty much ignored everything but the military aspect of their research. Maybe a neutral country like Switzerland or Sweden would be more favorable to looking at the data?

 

[LordKalvert]

I once came across a letter from Empress Marie to Nicholas admonishing him not to smoke "so often". Perhaps he could have taken her up on it and quite. Then when he felt better after a few days, he may have decided to ban it in Russia like he eventually does with alcohol.

 

[Richard V]

Hmm interesting, could Russian Bolsheviks pick up on the idea that tobacco ruin the health of the working class and lowers long term productivity? Maybe have Marx say things like "religion is the nicotine of the masses", though he was likely a smoker.

 

[LordKalvert]

Hmm interesting, could Russian Bolsheviks pick up on the idea that tobacco ruin the health of the working class and lowers long term productivity? Maybe have Marx say things like "religion is the nicotine of the masses", though he was likely a smoker.

Not up on the Bolshevik's attitude towards smoking but Nicholas would be a good point of departure

He had the power and was capable of it given his prohibition of alcohol. He also was devoutly Orthodox as was his country. Orthodoxy stresses self denial as a spiritual practice. A devout Orthodox Christian is supposed to abstain from eating anything from an animal with a backbone for about half the year. Specifically, every Wednesday and Friday, advent and lent and a few other times a year.

Preaching a fast of alcohol and tobacco might work. Tobacco is easier to ban than alcohol anyway

 

[Redhand]

Hmm interesting, could Russian Bolsheviks pick up on the idea that tobacco ruin the health of the working class and lowers long term productivity? Maybe have Marx say things like "religion is the nicotine of the masses", though he was likely a smoker.

The fact that the working class loved to smoke makes this difficult. The Bolsheviks wanted to be the true voice of the workers and what workers are going to follow those loonie who tell us not to smoke as opposed to other groups that wouldn't have an issue with it?

 

[U.S David]

After the war, the Americans and Soviets were in a race for as much Nazi tech and reasharch as possible.


Maybe they find tests and papers about smoking?

 

[Redhand]

After the war, the Americans and Soviets were in a race for as much Nazi tech and reasharch as possible.


Maybe they find tests and papers about smoking?

I don't think Camel and Co. would take kindly to that discovery, and keep in mind they are as powerful as ever and can simply say "You're trusting the Nazis?!!"

As far as the Soviets go, Uncle Joe isn't putting down that pipe and neither are proper citizens of the Motherland!!!

 

[NKVD]

Maybe have scientists in another country analyze their data and find the conclusions accurate, with the exception of the racism.

The spin would be terrible. I don't think the climate immediately after WWII was really conducive to anyone going "hey, Hitler got something right!"

 

[tallthinkev]

A slightly different take, could be 'You can't win a war if you don't smoke.' Churchill, FDR and Stalin did, Hitler, Mussolini and Hirohito didn't. Silly but one way of looking at it.

 

[MattII]

Maybe have scientists in another country analyze their data and find the conclusions accurate, with the exception of the racism.

If the tobacco companies weren't paying them off this would have come out fairly quickly anyway.

 

[nooblet]

The two are not congruent... Hitler himself was a hardcore non-smoker, but most Germans and most Nazis just laughed and lit up whenever the Fuhrer couldn't bitch about it.

Most I think were aware that smoking anything was bad for your health; the only issue was just how much it damages lungs, and why nicotine is so addictive (since neuroscience was not very well understood then). There wasn't the same drug culture then that there was in the 1960s onward, which spreads so much bullshit about drugs and their effects.

The US sure as hell wasn't going to support anti-tobacco legislation... the tobacco crop meant (and still means) too much to the American economy to start talking about how smoking is evil. That Hitler hated smoking was really low on the list of reasons to pick up the habit.

The Soviet Union had its hands full with... well, stuff, to start telling the proles that they can't enjoy their ciggy breaks. You can deprive your people of freedom and engage in brutal purges, but take away the smokes and you've just agitated a lot of people for no really good reason (as far as most people would see).

 

[Richard V]

The two are not congruent... Hitler himself was a hardcore non-smoker, but most Germans and most Nazis just laughed and lit up whenever the Fuhrer couldn't bitch about it.

Most I think were aware that smoking anything was bad for your health; the only issue was just how much it damages lungs, and why nicotine is so addictive (since neuroscience was not very well understood then). There wasn't the same drug culture then that there was in the 1960s onward, which spreads so much bullshit about drugs and their effects.

The US sure as hell wasn't going to support anti-tobacco legislation... the tobacco crop meant (and still means) too much to the American economy to start talking about how smoking is evil. That Hitler hated smoking was really low on the list of reasons to pick up the habit.

The Soviet Union had its hands full with... well, stuff, to start telling the proles that they can't enjoy their ciggy breaks. You can deprive your people of freedom and engage in brutal purges, but take away the smokes and you've just agitated a lot of people for no really good reason (as far as most people would see).

Germans did smoke despite what the Nazis wanted, but German tobacco consumption was a fraction of that in the rest of Europe and America so the program had significant effect.

I'm thinking maybe a country like Sweden or one of the South American countries pay attention to German research and just start accumulating data comparing smokers and non-smokers. They don't have to ban smoking but we could have enough evidence to prove smoking causes cancer long before the British Doctor's Study came to the same conclusion.

 

[Blair]

he may have decided to ban it in Russia like he eventually does with alcohol.

Nicholas tried to ban alcohol? Well now we know the real reason behind the revolution.

 

[titulus regius]

Rather off-time subject wise, but:

What if James I (England)/James VI (Scotland) did a bit more arm twisting than in OTL with the people drafting the King James Bible and added all or part of his treatise "A Counterblast to Tobacco" (Perhaps "Revelations Part 2 )?

 

[Gurroruo]

Nicholas tried to ban alcohol? Well now we know the real reason behind the revolution.

"meh vodka?! REVOLUTION!!!" Bolshevik Party

 

[Dilvish]

Does this mean that the Third Reich fans should wholeheartedly support anti-smoking measures?

 

[LordKalvert]

Nicholas tried to ban alcohol? Well now we know the real reason behind the revolution.

He did during the war- at first it was to speed up the mobilization (if you get your orders to go to war, getting drunk is the first thing a Russian is going to do)

He later extended it for the duration (except for expensive brands)

 

[oldironside]

It reminds me of the part in Der Untergang where everyone lights up the moment Hitler is dead (you can find it at 1.15 on the video link).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLmnTOQ2YpM

It's always struck me as a bit of a no-brainer. As a reformed heavy smoker (in my twenties I thought nothing of getting through fifty a day) you have to have world class self-denial to avoid the fact that it is doing you terrible harm. The coughing and wheezing first thing in the morning, the breathlessness after any physical activity, the chronic listlessness that heavy smoking brings.

I sometimes wonder what humankind could have achieved if we'd never smoked. A lot of very great men and women were only working at about 80% capacity.

To get back to the OP, if the Nazis had run a genuine scientific study comparing the physical, intellectual and psychological condition of a group of smokers and non-smokers, they would have undoubtedly found that the smokers scored lower, if only due to the decreased oxygen to the brain (as an aside, I once started smoking again in the middle of a chess game against my computer. We were fairly well matched at level 50 or so until I lit up and suddenly the computer started thrashing me. I had to drop it down to level 36 to get a decent game).

The Allies looked very closely at Nazi scientific research to do with hypothermia, anoxia, depressurisation etc. If there had been a proper scientific study of the effects of tobacco smoke it may have kick started research which led to the first proven link with fatal diseases a decade earlier than OTL.

A couple of other pictures to illustrate the debate. The first is a Nazi anti smoking poster talking about the financial penalties of the hideous habit.
"Two million Strength Through Joy Cars missed!"

And my personal favourite, The Chainsmoker: He doesn't consume it, it consumes him!"