AHC: Native Americans discover Europe
- Thread starter Dspoh001
- Start date
Vikings sail down the coast of the Americas and gets ship recked in the carribean and die of heat stroke.
Native Tainos, already canoe seafarers, capture the boats and incorporate the design in their.
At some point one crazy guy sails to back up the coast of the Americas, eventually reaching Greenland then Iceland, Marco Polo style.
Native Tainos, already canoe seafarers, capture the boats and incorporate the design in their.
At some point one crazy guy sails to back up the coast of the Americas, eventually reaching Greenland then Iceland, Marco Polo style.
I can kind of imagine the Mi'kmaqs, the Beothuks or maybe Greenland Inuit slowly island hoping from North America to Scotland with the right PODs, but I will readily admit that its a very unlikely scenario.
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Napoleonrules
Banned
Greenland isn't that far really from Iceland, what is the logistical requirements for a PoD for getting Inuits from Greenland to Iceland?
Well, the hard part would be getting from Iceland to Scotland. Labrador-Greenland-Iceland should be relatively easy. That's what I said, I can kind of envision certain subarctic or east coast native groups figuring how to do it in theory, since the geography would work in their favour, but realistically it's very unlikely.
Napoleonrules
Banned
If Inuit had traded with Iceland between Norse settlement in 874 and Norwegian sovereignty in 1262 would anyone have recorded it and have the story survive to go to Europe and us today? If you take the position that Iceland IS a part of Europe (and it is), then that's as far as you need to take the Inuit to satisfy this question. And I'm wondering... is it at least possible that OTL actually could have had that happen... I mean it's not like Europeans were great on keeping records of people, for instance in 1721 the Norwegians sent an expedition to Greenland not knowing if the original settlement still had living people there or not and they were actually worried that they would find Norse CATHOLICS who needed to be updated on the Reformation.
There is strong speculation that the Thule and/orInuit did make journeys to Iceland and maybe even Ireland or Faroe Islands. Their kayaks are pretty strong and the Inuit had pretty good Arctic tech.A plausible time line might be that a Thule fishing/whaling expedition took longer than expected and went into unfamiliar waters. Then, perhaps they either got aid from Norse or Irish or otherwise landed at a village and once the initial cultural shock wore off, decided to start up trade. But that's just a thought.
Ummm.... At the time the Norse in Greenland still had any strength, there WEREN'T any Inuit in Greenland. They moved in later.
jahenders
Banned
It's remotely plausible (though unlikely) that some group of inuits could wind up in Iceland or, possibly, even the Faroes. It's less likely that they could get to Ireland, Scotland, Norway, or England.
In any case, if they did, they might land and trade fish for goods (if they're not killed). However, they'd likely conclude that it wasn't worth the arduous journey and not good back.
The trip might span legends of a "strange land with people the color of snow faraway to the East," but even those wouldn't likely spread too far.
Assuming this West -> East "discovery" was made first, the biggest impact might have been in encouraging the Vikings and such to explore West earlier since they know SOMETHING is over there. So, you might have Viking colonies earlier. If word gets out to Europe at large, perhaps Columbus considers sailing somewhat more Northerly and lands near Maine or some such. If THAT happened, that would change the European impression of likely wealth over there, perhaps slowing or refocusing European exploration/colonization.
In any case, if they did, they might land and trade fish for goods (if they're not killed). However, they'd likely conclude that it wasn't worth the arduous journey and not good back.
The trip might span legends of a "strange land with people the color of snow faraway to the East," but even those wouldn't likely spread too far.
Assuming this West -> East "discovery" was made first, the biggest impact might have been in encouraging the Vikings and such to explore West earlier since they know SOMETHING is over there. So, you might have Viking colonies earlier. If word gets out to Europe at large, perhaps Columbus considers sailing somewhat more Northerly and lands near Maine or some such. If THAT happened, that would change the European impression of likely wealth over there, perhaps slowing or refocusing European exploration/colonization.
As others have said, the only plausible possibility involves the Inuit, who after all are part of a preexisting circumpolar cultural tradition that extends into northern Siberia, northern Scandinavia and Greenland already.
But I'm not sure that's what the OP has in mind by "Native Americans discover Europe". There is literally no plausible way that on their own any non-Inuit Native American people could "discover" Europe before Europeans make it to the New World. Any plausible way requires access to technology or knowledge that comes from the old world (a wrecked Viking ship, stranded sailors, or cultural diffusion through the Inuit in Greenland for example), which is still European discovery of the new world, not the other way around.
But I'm not sure that's what the OP has in mind by "Native Americans discover Europe". There is literally no plausible way that on their own any non-Inuit Native American people could "discover" Europe before Europeans make it to the New World. Any plausible way requires access to technology or knowledge that comes from the old world (a wrecked Viking ship, stranded sailors, or cultural diffusion through the Inuit in Greenland for example), which is still European discovery of the new world, not the other way around.
I wonder if it's possible that a canoe from the Inuit may have strayed via storms,etc. to Iceland, the Faeroes or even northern Norway with surviving voyagers but who never made it back home- either outrightly killed upon the first encounter with non-Native Americans seeing them, dying of starvation in a remote spot or even enslaved but having no way to escape? What would really be interesting if it turned out there was matrilineal DNA in these corners of European frontiers that turned out to be traced to the North American continent.
Emperor RyRy
Banned
Well depending on how far back you want to go, you could have an early Iroquois analogue and have them use Appalachian and Great Lakes iron. Some maritime tradition to trade with the Mississippi and Mesoamericans could allow for them to eventually decide to sail east and see what's up.
Now I know little about the Iroquois, but if you need a justification for a native Californian state discovering Asia, I'm your guy.
Now I know little about the Iroquois, but if you need a justification for a native Californian state discovering Asia, I'm your guy.
Apparently some of the population of Iceland has some Native American ancestry, not that that can't be explained by Vinland.
probably a bit off topic...
But the OP reminded me of a very good short story by Mike Flynn.
http://www.tor.com/2011/05/04/the-iron-shirts/#comment-185876
It involves a horse un-extinction POV
I know of several “European” markers found in American Indians. The consensus is, they probably arrived by way of Siberia (with the rest of them), could a similar process explain the similarities between Scandinavian and North American natives?
I snooped around a bit, but it’s late at night...
Not that I doubt the possibility of Americans discovering Europe by way of canoes, in fact given the “Friendly Floatees” experiment, I say currents make it a somewhat likely possibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_Floatees
Also, welcome to the forum!
But the OP reminded me of a very good short story by Mike Flynn.
http://www.tor.com/2011/05/04/the-iron-shirts/#comment-185876
It involves a horse un-extinction POV
I know of several “European” markers found in American Indians. The consensus is, they probably arrived by way of Siberia (with the rest of them), could a similar process explain the similarities between Scandinavian and North American natives?
I snooped around a bit, but it’s late at night...
Not that I doubt the possibility of Americans discovering Europe by way of canoes, in fact given the “Friendly Floatees” experiment, I say currents make it a somewhat likely possibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_Floatees
Also, welcome to the forum!
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