So I'm working on a new tl with a slightly different premise; how much change could adding in a single "Great Man" (or woman) to history make, and not just due to butterflies. My current idea is for a ATL British monarch born in ~1685 who essentially reigns from 1714-1770 let's say. How could such a queen or king be most different from the OTL Georges and most great? A particularly driven queen who promotes proto-feminist ideas? A military genius who returns Britain to the continent or crushes any potential American Revolution? A philosopher-king on the level of Frederick the great? Or simply a native English speaker who continues to go to cabinet meetings? What potential ideas do all of you have? (Sorry for the vagueness btw, I want to leave room for surprising scenarios)
AHC: Most Radically Different ATLMonarch for Georgian Era
- Thread starter Indigo
- Start date
Just to start: may I suggest William, Duke of Gloucester? For instance, Radcliffe, or another competent doctor, is called in earlier, and saves William's life (this is assuming it's possible); and even manages to give him a half way decent life. William III becomes a fervent supporter of medical and other science.
Have Mary of Modena, die during the child birth of James Francis Edward Stuart, in 10 June 1688.
King James II is disposed of in 11 December 1688 and flees to the continent, while his youngest son, is adopted as heir by the new monarchs, his sister, Mary II and her husband William III & II.
Prince James of Wales, is raised as a Protestant and married off to his second cousin, Sophia Dorothea of Hanover, barring him thirteen children whom nine survive into adulthood.
At the death of his brother-in-law, William, on 8th March, 1702, James is crowned king, becoming King James III (or if he prefers King Francis I or King Edward VII, to distance himself away from his father.)
Reigning from 1702 to 1766, a reign of 64 years making him the longest reigning monarch.
King James II is disposed of in 11 December 1688 and flees to the continent, while his youngest son, is adopted as heir by the new monarchs, his sister, Mary II and her husband William III & II.
Prince James of Wales, is raised as a Protestant and married off to his second cousin, Sophia Dorothea of Hanover, barring him thirteen children whom nine survive into adulthood.
At the death of his brother-in-law, William, on 8th March, 1702, James is crowned king, becoming King James III (or if he prefers King Francis I or King Edward VII, to distance himself away from his father.)
Reigning from 1702 to 1766, a reign of 64 years making him the longest reigning monarch.
I'm not sure I follow what you mean by "not just due to butterflies"... Because to me, the POD that leads to a different monarchs necessarilly results only in butterflies. It's a different person ruling at the time, not taking the same decisions as his OTL counterpart... There are only butterflies by that definition because the ATL monarch isn't the same as his OTL counterpart.Perhapsburg said:
Regarding the extent of changes that can be brought around by such a different monarch... In theory, you can probably do a lot of changes because you can change policies in each and every field. However, there are probably limitations in practice though due to the ways people's mind work at the timeperiod your ATL monarch would take the throne. You can't have a man with a XXth Century mindset ruling in the XVIIIth Century for example... He probably could have a few ideas "ahead of his time" but not be "out of touch with his time". Royal power is also not magic: for example, just because a monarch would have anti-slavery sentiment doesn't mean he could abolish slavery during his reign or that he wouldn't face a pro-slavery opposition.
To give you a concrete example... There was a time when I thought about making a timeline where Anne of Austria, wife of Louis XIII of France, doesn't suffer a miscarriage in 1619, resulting in an ATL Louis XIV being born at that date. This ATL Louis XIV would be quite different from OTL Louis XIV in terms of personnality: he wouldn't be a child upon accessing the throne, he would have grown up during the heart of his father's rule (which probably means Cardinal Richelieu would have played a role in his education), he would known his father a lot more, etc... This would clearly result in a different man. However, even if the ATL Louis XIV I envision would have been no OTL Sun King, I didn't evenision him becoming a complete opposite: my ATL monarch would probably have done the same reforms as his OTL counterpart in several fields. What I was changing was basically what I think would have been logically changed, even if some of the decisions were influenced by what I personnally wished to change as the writer of the TL.
My conclusion to this would basically be to do what you want but not to ignore the context.
Uhura's Mazda
Banned
Well, one of the obvious ones would be if William and Mary had a son. This son would have connections to the Continent (potentially Stadtholder, depending on dates and politics) and if so would lead a Britain much more involved in the land side of the [Number of Years] Wars of [Country] Succession, with the inevitable trade-off in terms of naval stagnation, fractiousness between Amsterdam and London in terms of Empire-building, which may see the [Compass Point] India Companies squabble themselves into either irrelevance or a stock exchange bubble. I mean, however Great the Man is, he isn't infallible. And in a proto-parliamentary democracy, the Great Man effect is overstated.
A fun, though unlikely possibility could be a marriage between Marlborough and Queen Anne, producing healthy kids with impeccable military training and a penchant for getting into arguments with politicians. Expect the Whigs to be locked out of power for a couple of generations and pretty much everything to go to shit in consequence. But at least the King will be Great.
And you're not going to get proto-feminism of any stripe in the eighteenth century. It was enough of a challenge for royal women of the era to introduce variolation and forceps, let alone anything else.
A fun, though unlikely possibility could be a marriage between Marlborough and Queen Anne, producing healthy kids with impeccable military training and a penchant for getting into arguments with politicians. Expect the Whigs to be locked out of power for a couple of generations and pretty much everything to go to shit in consequence. But at least the King will be Great.
And you're not going to get proto-feminism of any stripe in the eighteenth century. It was enough of a challenge for royal women of the era to introduce variolation and forceps, let alone anything else.
1. I don't think Parilament in this scenario goes along with William as not Regent but a king, so the titular reign will be 78(!) years.
2. If his personality was of OTL tendencies, he'll be very favorite-dependent personality, though this won't be worse than OTL abuse of power by Parliament brought by string of German Kings.
Now his son from such a match... that'll be an interesting thing.
Wow I'm really liking the amount of thought you people are putting into this. (Guglielmian age?) A few more thoughts-
1) As people aptly said, a monarch can't be a jump out of the society of their own time (so like a vegan, nihilist or conservationist monarch is probably a bridge too far). All the same; a different monarch could lead that society in a different direction; by focusing on the arts, or science (or warfare), and that could really create changes.
2) Instead of being a "Great Man" the monarch could cause ultimately more effects with incompetence. A monarch that tries to return to autocracy, does worse in the struggle for colonies (or goes in for lysenko-esque pseudo science) could have far greater effects.
More thoughts or proposals are greatly welcomed and I will note that none of you (so far) have guessed the potential parentage I have in mind.
1) As people aptly said, a monarch can't be a jump out of the society of their own time (so like a vegan, nihilist or conservationist monarch is probably a bridge too far). All the same; a different monarch could lead that society in a different direction; by focusing on the arts, or science (or warfare), and that could really create changes.
2) Instead of being a "Great Man" the monarch could cause ultimately more effects with incompetence. A monarch that tries to return to autocracy, does worse in the struggle for colonies (or goes in for lysenko-esque pseudo science) could have far greater effects.
More thoughts or proposals are greatly welcomed and I will note that none of you (so far) have guessed the potential parentage I have in mind.
Faeelin
Banned
It's honestly hard for me to see which wars in the 18th century Britain wasn't involved in OTL
. So I dont' see a change.Utterly incompetent (and possibly Catholic?) monarch leads to English (now British) Civil War 2.0 and a return to a republic (with a messianic drive to liberate Europe from the shackles of monarchy)?
It may seem a tall order, but I have faith in the incompetence of the House of Stuart.
It may seem a tall order, but I have faith in the incompetence of the House of Stuart.
With Sweden:
William of Denmark, duke of Gloucester marries Ulrika Eleonora of Sweden
With Modena:
Rinaldo III d'Este dies in a freak accident and the nearest heir is the Old Pretender (who makes a successful bid in 1715)
With Parma:
Old Pretender marries Isabel Farnese
With Spain:
La Consolatrice is married to Philip V of Spain, her brother dies of smallpox instead of her.
With Denmark:
Gloucester's line survives, while the Danish royal line dies out at some point with Gloucester being tbe nearest heirs.
With Hannover:
Queen Anne pulls off her stunt to marry La Consolatrice to OTL George II, Old Pretender dies childless.
With Sweden 2.0
La Consolatrice marries Carl XII and produces healthy half-Swedish, fully Protestant babies.
With Russia:
The Old Pretender marries Anna/Elizabeth Petrovna as proposed, the Annan line ends up as heirs as OTL.
William of Denmark, duke of Gloucester marries Ulrika Eleonora of Sweden
With Modena:
Rinaldo III d'Este dies in a freak accident and the nearest heir is the Old Pretender (who makes a successful bid in 1715)
With Parma:
Old Pretender marries Isabel Farnese
With Spain:
La Consolatrice is married to Philip V of Spain, her brother dies of smallpox instead of her.
With Denmark:
Gloucester's line survives, while the Danish royal line dies out at some point with Gloucester being tbe nearest heirs.
With Hannover:
Queen Anne pulls off her stunt to marry La Consolatrice to OTL George II, Old Pretender dies childless.
With Sweden 2.0
La Consolatrice marries Carl XII and produces healthy half-Swedish, fully Protestant babies.
With Russia:
The Old Pretender marries Anna/Elizabeth Petrovna as proposed, the Annan line ends up as heirs as OTL.
With Sweden v.1
Gloucester survives, marries Ulrika Eleonora
With Sweden v.2
La Consolatrice marries Carl XII and pops out healthy half-Swedish undeniably Protestant babies.
With Denmark:
The royal Danish line dies out and Gloucester's descent are the nearest heirs.
With Russia:
JFES marries Anna/Elizabeth Petrovna
With Modena:
Rinaldo d'Este dies in a freak accident, and nearest heir is JFES.
With Parma:
JFES marries Isabel Farnese.
With Spain:
La Consolatrice marries Philip V of Spain as his second wife; double POD La Savoyana's sons die childless as OTL, while JFES dies instead of La Consolatrice.
With Hannover:
Queen Anne manages to marry la Consolatrice off to OTL George II, with JFES dying instead of his sister.
Gloucester survives, marries Ulrika Eleonora
With Sweden v.2
La Consolatrice marries Carl XII and pops out healthy half-Swedish undeniably Protestant babies.
With Denmark:
The royal Danish line dies out and Gloucester's descent are the nearest heirs.
With Russia:
JFES marries Anna/Elizabeth Petrovna
With Modena:
Rinaldo d'Este dies in a freak accident, and nearest heir is JFES.
With Parma:
JFES marries Isabel Farnese.
With Spain:
La Consolatrice marries Philip V of Spain as his second wife; double POD La Savoyana's sons die childless as OTL, while JFES dies instead of La Consolatrice.
With Hannover:
Queen Anne manages to marry la Consolatrice off to OTL George II, with JFES dying instead of his sister.