AHC: Manchu diaspora

pa_dutch · Mar 20, 2016

The Manchu are the largest Tungusic ethnic group, but are almost exclusively found in mainland China and Taiwan. Along with their close relative ethnic group, the Xibo, they can be found all across northern China, from Heilongjiang to Hebei to Xinjiang. There aren't many Manchu to be found outside of China, however.

With a POD no earlier than the beginning of the Qing dynasty, make an exodus of Manchu from China that is significant enough to number over one million people or more by the modern day. The larger the diaspora, the better, though it shouldn't take away from the large number of Manchu that remain in China. Which country is most likely - Japan, one of the Koreas, Russia, or somewhere else? Bonus points if this Manchu diaspora manages to maintain its language and culture to much greater degree than the modern Manchu living in China have.

Avrorrange · Mar 20, 2016

Southern Ming holds the line and eventually expels the Manchus from China.

pa_dutch · Mar 21, 2016

darthfanta said:
Southern Ming holds the line and eventually expels the Manchus from China.

I don't want all of the Manchus driven out, or even the majority. I just want a significant portion of Manchus living outside of China.

Avrorrange · Mar 21, 2016

pa_dutch said:
I don't want all of the Manchus driven out, or even the majority. I just want a significant portion of Manchus living outside of China.

Impossible then.The Manchus basically became a form of nobility in China not unlike the Afrikaans of South Africa and Rhodesia.Why would they get out of China unless the dynasty falls when they can live like lords off the Chinese?It's like trying to set up a challenge where the British aristocracy all leave Britain for some reason even though there's no revolution whatsoever and have them settle and work like peasants in Australia.The only exception being a prince taking a bunch of less well off Manchus and conquering another state where this group of Manchus can also live like lords--the chances of this happening is extremely unlikely given how xenophobic the Manchus were curiously.

pa_dutch · Mar 21, 2016

darthfanta said:
Impossible then.The Manchus basically became a form of nobility in China not unlike the Afrikaans of South Africa and Rhodesia.Why would they get out of China unless the dynasty falls when they can live like lords off the Chinese?

I never said the dynasty couldn't fall in order for the challenge to be met...

Bmao · Mar 21, 2016

I could imagine a Manchu diaspora in Russia, if say, there is a political situation where the Qing get overthrown and a pro-Qing Russia decides to keep Manchus in its borders for a potential Qing restoration. In fact, I was rather surprised to learn that there isn't a substantial Manchu diaspora in Russia due to proximity.

Avrorrange · Mar 21, 2016

Bmao said:
I could imagine a Manchu diaspora in Russia, if say, there is a political situation where the Qing get overthrown and a pro-Qing Russia decides to keep Manchus in its borders for a potential Qing restoration. In fact, I was rather surprised to learn that there isn't a substantial Manchu diaspora in Russia due to proximity.

Iirc,there was a genocide of the original population living in Outer Manchuria by the Russians.

galanx · Mar 22, 2016

Taiwan? I mean there are supposed to be about 10,000 or so, but most of even them would be of mixed descent by now.

pa_dutch · Mar 22, 2016

darthfanta said:
Iirc,there was a genocide of the original population living in Outer Manchuria by the Russians.

I think different times could lead to different attitudes. As the Manchu were the ruling class of China during the time that Russia entered the region, the Russians likely saw them no differently than the majority Han Chinese and thus expelled the Manchu in an effort to prevent a mass influx of Han settlers. If the Manchu aren't in power anymore, they become a minority distinctive from the Han and possibly won't be anymore unwelcome than the Koreans who crossed the border.

It would be very interesting if the Soviets still exist in this timeline - Do they deal with the Manchu migrants and their descendants by giving them an autonomous area within the Soviet Union, or might they scatter them around Central Asia as they did with the Koreans and the Germans?

Might Japan take in a large number of Manchu migrants or refugees?

Marius · Mar 23, 2016

darthfanta said:
Impossible then.The Manchus basically became a form of nobility in China not unlike the Afrikaans of South Africa and Rhodesia.Why would they get out of China unless the dynasty falls when they can live like lords off the Chinese?It's like trying to set up a challenge where the British aristocracy all leave Britain for some reason even though there's no revolution whatsoever and have them settle and work like peasants in Australia.The only exception being a prince taking a bunch of less well off Manchus and conquering another state where this group of Manchus can also live like lords--the chances of this happening is extremely unlikely given how xenophobic the Manchus were curiously.

How did Afrikaners form an aristocracy in South Africa, much less Rhodesia?