AHC: Make the Presidential Losers winners

Your goal, is too make as many losers in the Presidential elections as winners in one timeline. Guys who never became president

Examples
-Barry Goldwater
-Herbert Humphrey
-George McGovern
-Walter Mondale
-Michael Dukakis
-Bob Dole
-Al Gore
-John Kerry
-John McCain
-Mitt Romney

Bonus if they end up winning against the guys they loss in OTL
 
Because I don't have enough specific knowledge to make serious attempts at this, I'm going to try to rank these guys from 'easiest to make a winner' to 'hardest'. What little I do know will go in brackets. Here goes:

- Al Gore (flip a coin IOTL and he wins)
- John Kerry (Ohio IOTL)
- John McCain (knock out Bush in 2000)
- Hubert Humphrey
- Bob Dole
- Mitt Romney
- Michael Dukakis
- Walter Mondale
- George McGovern
- Barry Goldwater
 
Because I don't have enough specific knowledge to make serious attempts at this, I'm going to try to rank these guys from 'easiest to make a winner' to 'hardest'. What little I do know will go in brackets. Here goes:

- Al Gore (flip a coin IOTL and he wins)
- John Kerry (Ohio IOTL)
- John McCain (knock out Bush in 2000)
- Hubert Humphrey
- Bob Dole
- Mitt Romney
- Michael Dukakis
- Walter Mondale
- George McGovern
- Barry Goldwater

I would put McGovern in front of Mondale, since I don't see how Mondale can win, but a perfect storm can do it for McGovern
 
Mondale could win in certain circumstances. Like if Carter dies several months before the election and Mondale runs as the incumbent president with a huge sympathy boost, or if Reagan suffers for some scandals combined with subsequent debate performances which are as pitiful as his first one in 1984.
 

Realpolitik

Banned
I would put McGovern in front of Mondale, since I don't see how Mondale can win, but a perfect storm can do it for McGovern

No way. A McGovern win is near ASB levels. Mondale is tough, but not on the same level of "no chance" as McGovern.


EDIT:

For me it's in order of easiest to hardest. I don't know the exactly electoral count for all of them, so IIRC. I'll add explanations later if I feel like it.

Al Gore. (Need I explain?)
John McCain. (2000)
HHH.
Bob Dole.
John Kerry.
Mitt Romney.
Michael Dukakis.
Walter Mondale. (Not going to lie to you, Democrats, this is going to be tough. However, if the economy takes longer to heal, and Reagan suffers a couple of embarrassments, it is possible.)
Barry Goldwater=George McGovern. (Both candidates simply did not appeal to the majority of the people, and were out of their league politically with Johnson and Nixon, respectively.)
 
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I'm actually thinking of a TLIAD in the vein of Shuffling the Deck where every post-1944 OTL Presidential election loser becomes President, in the order that they lost OTL. It starts off with FDR having a massive heart attack and stroke in June of 1944 and Dewey winning against Wallace...

(My computer is dead right now, typing this on a smartphone. Should have it up Thanksgiving weekend.)

Because I don't have enough specific knowledge to make serious attempts at this, I'm going to try to rank these guys from 'easiest to make a winner' to 'hardest'. What little I do know will go in brackets. Here goes:

- Al Gore (flip a coin IOTL and he wins)
- John Kerry (Ohio IOTL)
- John McCain (knock out Bush in 2000)
- Hubert Humphrey
- Bob Dole
- Mitt Romney
- Michael Dukakis
- Walter Mondale
- George McGovern
- Barry Goldwater

Goldwater isn't winning a Presidential election in a world where the New Deal is functional and the Russians are not occupying Alaska. Of course, he doesn't have to win a Presidential election to be President... :D
 
My memory is hazy - is there anything insurmountable for Dukakis other than an easily butterflyable ill-advised tank photo and him not supporting the death penalty (coupled with some equally easily butterflyable dodgy debate moderation)?
 
Why does Bob Dole have more chance than Romney?!:confused:
Sure, Mitt was a weak candidate but so was Dole and a 3% swing would give him an easy win. And unemployment was pretty high in 2012 while 1996 ... Not so much.
 
A McGovern win is a lot easier than Goldwater, everyone. McGovern was running against two people who ended up resigning in disgrace less than halfway through their term. Goldwater was running against, among other things, the legacy of JFK.

All you have to do to get a McGovern win in 1972 is have Nixon and Agnew's scandals blow up before the election and avoid the whole Eagleton affair.
 

Realpolitik

Banned
A McGovern win is a lot easier than Goldwater, everyone. McGovern was running against two people who ended up resigning in disgrace less than halfway through their term. Goldwater was running against, among other things, the legacy of JFK.

All you have to do to get a McGovern win in 1972 is have Nixon and Agnew's scandals blow up before the election and avoid the whole Eagleton affair.

The Watergate break in took place in June of 1972. It takes months to try the CREEPers and to get any implication tying higher ups in the White House into affair. It's going to be very hard to get it to blow up in time to do McGovern any good. The Washington Post and George McGovern did their damndest to make an issue out of it, but the country, and the media as a whole, was uninterested until James McCord wrote to Judge Sirica. McGovern is thought of as a left wing crazy by a lot of the populace, a lot of the older-style Democrats will sit on their hands, and that doesn't change with or without Eagleton. And McGovern's biggest issue-Vietnam-was increasingly irrelevant during the year, essentially reducing him to pleading for moral national behavior. McGovern just was not a viable candidate.
 

Realpolitik

Banned
Why does Bob Dole have more chance than Romney?!:confused:
Sure, Mitt was a weak candidate but so was Dole and a 3% swing would give him an easy win. And unemployment was pretty high in 2012 while 1996 ... Not so much.

Because Dole had a GOP that had a far better reputation in 1996 than in 2012.
 

Realpolitik

Banned
He lost by a wider margin than Romney. Besides, he and Gingrich had just shut down the government. 2012 was closer than 1996. That's my point.

Not to be confused with good chance for either. Clinton was a helluva politician-better than his predecessor and his two successors at campaigning.

My memories of 96 are non-existent, being a toddler, so I can accept that I'm wrong there. I assumed the GOP was nowhere near as noxious for the population as a whole, and was far more dominant in the 90s. I guess it was a Stevenson vs Eisenhower situation.
 
With Dole, his longevity helps him out - with minimal butterflies, he could conceivably become President as early as 1977 and a contender in any election from 1980 to 1996.
 
I'm actually thinking of a TLIAD in the vein of Shuffling the Deck where every post-1944 OTL Presidential election loser becomes President, in the order that they lost OTL. It starts off with FDR having a massive heart attack and stroke in June of 1944 and Dewey winning against Wallace...

Goldwater isn't winning a Presidential election in a world where the New Deal is functional and the Russians are not occupying Alaska. Of course, he doesn't have to win a Presidential election to be President... :D

I've actually thought about this as a TLIAD. I'm glad to see that someone's thinking about doing it. (I don't have the time... As evidenced by my poor updating schedule).
 
I'm actually thinking of a TLIAD in the vein of Shuffling the Deck where every post-1944 OTL Presidential election loser becomes President, in the order that they lost OTL. It starts off with FDR having a massive heart attack and stroke in June of 1944 and Dewey winning against Wallace...

I had a similar TLIAD idea except it was a nested TL where it was a Shuffling of the Deck as though I was from the TL where those people were actually President in the order they lost.

-Barry Goldwater (No idea)
-Herbert Humphrey (Just on polling, have Nixon not go on Laugh In. Based on the Keys to the White House have RFK win, calming the protesters outside the Democratic Convention, have the Paris Peace Talks not be imploded by Nixon and have Wallace hurt Nixon more. Or have LBJ run, do all the previous, and then die in his next term).
-George McGovern (Have Nixon implode during the election from scandal instead of just before the midterm, preventing the Chinese trip and the Vietnam talks.)
-Walter Mondale (Ronald Reagan is assassinated, and Bush runs a moderate administration that is hated by the Conservatives who try to oust him in 84, damaging the party enough for Mondale to slide in a squeaker.)
-Michael Dukakis (Based on polling, answer those Law and Order questions better and don't do the tank thing. Based on Keys to the White House have the Iran Contra scandal blowing up early with Democrats making 86 a second 74 and the scandal damaging Bush as he seeks the Republican nomination.)
-Bob Dole (Clinton's sexual scandals come out in 96 close enough to the election for the GOP not to shoot themselves in the foot over it).
-Al Gore (Different ballot count in Florida)
-John Kerry (Polling...better campaign in Ohio. Keys...maybe if Bush choked to death on that pretzel leaving a power vacuum in the Republican Party.)
-John McCain (2000 is the best chance here)
-Mitt Romney (Healthcare fails, Obama fails to get Bin Laden)

Other folks from After 1900. Dewey or Wilkie could win if FDR opt to not run for term 3 or 4. Landon could win if FDR actually was assassinated leaving Garner in office. Smith might win if the market crashes in 28 instead of 29. Davis could win if the Democratic convention is still its OTL clusterfuck, but Harding live long enough to make the Republican convention do the same. James Cox could be President if he was the compromise choice in 24 after the same scenario as the previous one. Charles Evans Hughes wins the electoral college in 1916 if he swallows his pride and kisses Hiram Johnson's ring. William Jennings Bryan wins in 04 if McKinley doesn't die.

Alton Parker seems like a nice enough guy, but it seems unlikely that there is any other scenario that puts him anywhere near the Presidency. And I think Adlai Stevenson probably loses even against Robert Taft, though he might win on a second try.
 
Goldwater could have a chance if Kennedy lived and his infidelities come out. He could leave another woman pregnant and Jackie could divorce him.
 

Realpolitik

Banned
I had a similar TLIAD idea except it was a nested TL where it was a Shuffling of the Deck as though I was from the TL where those people were actually President in the order they lost.

-Barry Goldwater (No idea)
-Herbert Humphrey (Just on polling, have Nixon not go on Laugh In. Based on the Keys to the White House have RFK win, calming the protesters outside the Democratic Convention, have the Paris Peace Talks not be imploded by Nixon and have Wallace hurt Nixon more. Or have LBJ run, do all the previous, and then die in his next term).
-George McGovern (Have Nixon implode during the election from scandal instead of just before the midterm, preventing the Chinese trip and the Vietnam talks.)
-Walter Mondale (Ronald Reagan is assassinated, and Bush runs a moderate administration that is hated by the Conservatives who try to oust him in 84, damaging the party enough for Mondale to slide in a squeaker.)
-Michael Dukakis (Based on polling, answer those Law and Order questions better and don't do the tank thing. Based on Keys to the White House have the Iran Contra scandal blowing up early with Democrats making 86 a second 74 and the scandal damaging Bush as he seeks the Republican nomination.)
-Bob Dole (Clinton's sexual scandals come out in 96 close enough to the election for the GOP not to shoot themselves in the foot over it).
-Al Gore (Different ballot count in Florida)
-John Kerry (Polling...better campaign in Ohio. Keys...maybe if Bush choked to death on that pretzel leaving a power vacuum in the Republican Party.)
-John McCain (2000 is the best chance here)
-Mitt Romney (Healthcare fails, Obama fails to get Bin Laden)

Other folks from After 1900. Dewey or Wilkie could win if FDR opt to not run for term 3 or 4. Landon could win if FDR actually was assassinated leaving Garner in office. Smith might win if the market crashes in 28 instead of 29. Davis could win if the Democratic convention is still its OTL clusterfuck, but Harding live long enough to make the Republican convention do the same. James Cox could be President if he was the compromise choice in 24 after the same scenario as the previous one. Charles Evans Hughes wins the electoral college in 1916 if he swallows his pride and kisses Hiram Johnson's ring. William Jennings Bryan wins in 04 if McKinley doesn't die.

Alton Parker seems like a nice enough guy, but it seems unlikely that there is any other scenario that puts him anywhere near the Presidency. And I think Adlai Stevenson probably loses even against Robert Taft, though he might win on a second try.

In order:

Goldwater is near ASB levels. Civil Rights, post JFK assassination, up against LBJ, the virtually literal dictator of the New Deal coalition... Goldwater was simply not in the same political class of heavyweight as Johnson was.

In sub-order:

a) How are you going to calm the protesters? Their explicit goal was to get attention.

b) I think that the actual impact of the Chennault affair is strongly overblown. Thieu and his buddies knew that it was a bad deal from a lame duck President whose own party has had serious factions in it advocating that America hang their nation out to dry and has dealt with protesters waving the flags of the enemy, and whose opposition was one of the most notorious red baiters in history, and no Chennault will not butterfly this-Thieu has literally every incentive to not go along with Johnson after the bombing halt. Furthermore, Johnson's bombing halt was pretty much optimally timed for electoral purposes as it was, so changing the date won't help. If Thieu was able to sabotage Johnson then, he would any earlier time, and later will not help the Democrats.

c)Having no Wallace hurts Humphrey more than anything. Who else would they go for, assuming they vote at all? Those Wallace states are not going for Humphrey.

d) And as a general conclusion, people tend to forget that like in 1960, though the popular vote was close, the electoral vote was less so.

I've already explained, here and elsewhere, why a McGovern victory is near ASB. You need TIME to try Liddy and Company. And even there is a scandal, that might not be enough to get someone like George McGovern into the White House.

Volcker's reforms still take place, leading to the economic boom, and the new "tougher" America is most approved of by the populace. The country had gone right. And arguably Reagan being killed will cause people to sympathize with the administration more than anything.

You will have to make Iran Contra a lot bigger. Reagan still left office pretty popular, and the GOP was now the dominant party.

Who would be the sex scandal? If it is pre-Lewinsky, it probably would have already taken him down. Clinton was pretty good at taking character abuse, don't forget.

I'll give you Gore.

Kerry just was not a very good politician. If he could not beat Bush II in OTL's circumstances, I'm a little cynical that he ever would. And there is no way, if Bush chokes on the pretzel post 9/11, that the USA would ever learn the truth about it, not for a while anyway. Same case I mentioned with Reagan unless Cheney managed to goof up everything severely-which he might.

Agree on McCain.

Hm... will that overcome the GOPs worsening reputation among the people?
 
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