AHC: Keep Venice independent to the modern day

[Curtain Jerker]

Just like the headline says - your challenge is to make and keep the Republic of Venice independent all the way to 2019.

The Republic doesn't need to control any territory outside the city of Venice itself to count for the challenge but the city itself must be independent (i.e, not part of a modern/unified Italy or not part of a Austrian Empire to name two examples) to count for the challenge.

 

[ArchimedesCircle]

The easiest way would be a no Napoleon/no French revolution TL. Or maybe the Venetian government flees to the Ionian Islands during the Revolutionary/Napoleonic wars and gets the city back at Vienna. Then when unification rolls around the city of Venice gets a deal similar to San Marino and the Vatican in exchange for giving up the rest of its territory?

 

[Escape Zeppelin]

The easiest way would be a no Napoleon/no French revolution TL. Or maybe the Venetian government flees to the Ionian Islands during the Revolutionary/Napoleonic wars and gets the city back at Vienna. Then when unification rolls around the city of Venice gets a deal similar to San Marino and the Vatican in exchange for giving up the rest of its territory?

I think there's a lot of Napoleonic possibilities that might work. Perhaps Napoleon just doesn't create the Kingdom if Italy and post-war northern Italy goes back to looking like a mess of small states with some chunks taken out by France and Austria. No matter what happens I think Napoleon is the key figure here since he could effectively decide the borders and politics of northern Italy on a whim.

 

[htgriffin]

One Idea along these lines I have long had was that, during the Great Turkish War, retaking Crete was given priority over the Morea and proved more successful... which in turn obliged Venice to maintain more of a Navy and gave the government a Bolthole if/when something Really Unpleasant happens on the Italian Mainland.

 

[Deleted member 109224]

It looks like Venetian neutrality during the Napoleonic Wars is what finally did them in. Have them ally with Napoleon and use the opportunity to gain at Austria's expense.

 

[htgriffin]

It looks like Venetian neutrality during the Napoleonic Wars is what finally did them in. Have them ally with Napoleon and use the opportunity to gain at Austria's expense.

Of course being clever of lucky enough to know when to switch sides is also pretty critical....

 

[Ultima Ratio]

Can they be occupied for a while? Because if yes, there could be various peace treaties either during the Italian Wars of Unification or even WW1 that end up with a neutral Venice as a buffer state.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

Can they be occupied for a while? Because if yes, there could be various peace treaties either during the Italian Wars of Unification or even WW1 that end up with a neutral Venice as a buffer state.

Hmmmm.

Sure, I'll allow it. Something like @ArchimedesCircle said about the city being occupied but the government flees to the Ionian Islands/Crete works only to come back later.

Given that, what are you thinking? I'm toying with a timeline where Venice turns into a combination of Monaco and Switzerland - a city-state devoted to gambling, tourism, and banking/finance. Just trying to iron the kinks out and get some cool ideas before I fully put pen to paper.

 

[Escape Zeppelin]

Given that, what are you thinking? I'm toying with a timeline where Venice turns into a combination of Monaco and Switzerland - a city-state devoted to gambling, tourism, and banking/finance. Just trying to iron the kinks out and get some cool ideas before I fully put pen to paper.

I like your idea but you can also add making them a free port like Trieste was in otl. Their commercial empire is long gone but both Venice and Trieste are important port cities for both northern Italy and Austria. A neutral-ish port city with a lot of banks that's cheaper to do business with than conquer, and has some great luxury/tourism options for Europe's wealthy looking to get away. Basically a 19th c. Singapore.

 

[Historyman 14]

Actually have them win a few of they wars with the Ottomans. Knock the Turks a peg, or three, and so Venetian Greece is still a thing.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

I like your idea but you can also add making them a free port like Trieste was in otl. Their commercial empire is long gone but both Venice and Trieste are important port cities for both northern Italy and Austria. A neutral-ish port city with a lot of banks that's cheaper to do business with than conquer, and has some great luxury/tourism options for Europe's wealthy looking to get away. Basically a 19th c. Singapore.

Hmm, great idea. Once I finish my current timeline (cheap plug!) I may start a Venice one and use your/everyone's ideas. I'm thinking the POD is Venice decides to stand up to Napoleon instead of their OTL half-assed appeasement that went nowhere. Napoleon takes the terraferma and gives it to Austria for the Austrian Netherlands as OTL, but decides that the city itself is both too hard to occupy and too unimportant to worth bothering about. He's got the Terraferma, the actual city itself isn't that valuable. They can't bother him on the mainland, he can't bother them on the islands. He's got WAY bigger fish to fry than some city that was last powerful two hundred years prior.

Then, after Vienna Austria keeps the terraferma under the Kingdom of Lombady-Venetia but Venice itself (along with a few minor holdings in the lagoon, but nothing on the mainland except Cavallino-Treporti) gets to stay independent. The Brits will give back the Ionian Islands but Venice will sell/give them to Greece when Greece declares independence from the Ottomans.

All subject to change, and I want to finish my current TL before I start on something like this, but that's the working idea in my head at least.

 

[Daedalus]

According to some I have read, the Dalmatian islands were some of the last holdouts of Venetian power too. So if Venice proper doesn't fall, its Dalmatian territories might be able to hold out like the islands in the Carnaro (Rab, Cres, Pag, Krk, Ugljan) and those mainland territories beyond Hungary's reach (Kotor, for example since Ragusa in this case might not have been conquered with the Venetian Dalmatia)

 

[Evil Crusader]

I like your idea but you can also add making them a free port like Trieste was in otl. Their commercial empire is long gone but both Venice and Trieste are important port cities for both northern Italy and Austria. A neutral-ish port city with a lot of banks that's cheaper to do business with than conquer, and has some great luxury/tourism options for Europe's wealthy looking to get away. Basically a 19th c. Singapore.

Either Venice or Trieste - there is not enough commerce to prop both of them up.
Their status as profitable commercial hub also wholly depends on them being widely and reliably connected to a wide economic hinterland, and this more or less means at least formal suzerainty by whoever owns said hinterland - or a hugely fragmented one which still is rich and strong enough to provide support and discourage expansion.

 

[Višeslav]

It looks like Venetian neutrality during the Napoleonic Wars is what finally did them in. Have them ally with Napoleon and use the opportunity to gain at Austria's expense.

This keeps them independent during the Napoleonic wars, but afterwards, they would likely loose a lot if not all of their land. I mean, look at Denmark, they sided with Napoleon and lost all of Norway post war. While somehow not being included in The kingdom of Italy could help, siding with Napoleon ultimately seems like a bad strategy.

Unless, as htgriffin said, they switch sides later

Of course being clever of lucky enough to know when to switch sides is also pretty critical....