AHC: Buddhist teaching, belief, and monasticism spread to southwestern Asia and the Mediterranean world in Ancient or Classical Age

What if Buddhist teaching, belief, and monasticism spread widely, and broadly to southwestern Asia and the Mediterranean world in Ancient or Classical Age, at an are point in the centuries after Gautama's life?

Early version - The teaching gets to Southwest Asia by the time of the Medes and their empire, and exists as a continuous minority faith in Persia and Asia Minor in those regions from then one, likely riding imperial circuits further as subsequent Persian and Hellenistic empires emerge

Almost as early version - Buddhism does really well in the Achaemenid empire - in a possible extreme scenario, perhaps overtaking or merging with Zoroastrianism

Middle version - Buddhism spreads west successfully in the Hellenistic Diadochi era

Later version - Buddhism spreads west with great success just before or at the same time as Christianity in the Parthian and Roman empires and other nearby areas like Arabia, Armenia, and the Caucasus.
 
I personally find Buddhist thought interesting. And it does provide a set of answers to the absolute body blow that people I love are going to die some day and that I myself am going to die.

But compared to seeing loved ones again in Heaven, it’s kind of a thin consolation. I’m sorry, but it kind of is. o_O

Where I think Buddhism excels is the— Ride the zen waves aspect (go with the ups and downs of life, embrace challenges and ragged parts, etc)
 
Depending on when it arrived, I could see it finding a good partner in Neo-Platonicism, which displayed some characteristics which already somewhat leaned in that direction.
 
During the Hellenistic Age is the best bet because they were sending Missionaries to Europe. with Buddhists arriving to the courts of Magas of Cyrene and Antigonus II Gonatas, of course they would just be one philosopher out of many.

Assuming there is a wider spread of Buddhism in Europe, I imagine that it might create an early form of Monasticism for the various Greek Philosophical schools, or at least some influence from Buddhist Monasticism would affect them. Pythagoreanism and Cynicism are the best here to take advantage of a 'monastic wave' as they were establishing something like that already; Cenobitic for the Pythagoreanism IIRC. While for the Cynics giving up your worldly possessions to become a philosopher was one of the famous tell-tell signs of the Cynics.

While Stoicism is often compared to Buddhism, and there are similarities, the closest school would be Pyrhonism. Which brings up an interesting thing to note.
At this point in History there were a lot of different schools of Buddhism, it was just Therevada, Mahayana, and Vajarayana. You had a bunch of different schools somewhere around 18. and they could vary. Anyways back to Pyrrhonism. the founder of that school of Hellenistic Thought Phyrro was a companion of Alexander the Great and came with him when he went to India and had the most direct contact with the various scholars of India. His school could perhaps become a 19th school and included into the Buddhist schools of this time period.

Another Influence I could see from Buddhism is increased Vegetarianism. there were plenty of greek philosophers suggested this. The most famous being the Pythagoreans but also the scholarchs of the Platonic school had major advocates for it. A stronger influence of Buddhism would just be one extra strong voice supporting this. Which could encourage some areas to be much more vegetarian than others. Of course not every place with Buddhists is a purely vegetarian place, Tibet for example isn't due to its geography, so this is no guarentee but I can see it being more of a thing.

Of course its not all just one way, and conveniently we know how the Greeks would affect Buddhism, because they did so with Greaco-Buddhism, and Greaco-Buddhist art. Something which would obviously be strengthened being in the Greek Heartland and not just among the Indo-Greeks.
 
It'd be interesting to see what Greek gods manage to win inclusion into a buddhist pantheon, and which ones are rejected completely. Otl in India, it was the minor devas that got accepted by the Buddhists, but those gods seen as being the one true monad, eg Vishnu and Shiva had to wait til a version of them had been thought of that was sufficiently powered down to not challenge the Buddha's teachings.

I think then, Isis, Zeus and Dionysus would not be included in a Greco buddhist pantheon- but people like Apollo or Hermes would be.
 
Depending on when it arrived, I could see it finding a good partner in Neo-Platonicism, which displayed some characteristics which already somewhat leaned in that direction.
I believe there's an ex-Buddhist poster here who once pointed out that Neoplatonism and Buddhism aren't likely to "mix well"
@CountPeter maybe?
 
It'd be interesting to see what Greek gods manage to win inclusion into a buddhist pantheon, and which ones are rejected completely. Otl in India, it was the minor devas that got accepted by the Buddhists, but those gods seen as being the one true monad, eg Vishnu and Shiva had to wait til a version of them had been thought of that was sufficiently powered down to not challenge the Buddha's teachings.

I think then, Isis, Zeus and Dionysus would not be included in a Greco buddhist pantheon- but people like Apollo or Hermes would be.
The thing to note about Buddhism is that it is not a religiously exclusive religion. Prostlytizing, yes especially in this era. But it didn't demand that people give up their own Gods and Goddesses. One just has to look at China and Japan as other example. This also bears out with the evidence of the Indo-Greeks which show the fusion. Meander the 2nd had coins minted that on one side had Zeus and Nike. In Classical Greek Fashion, Nike held a laurel wreath, but showing his buddhist faith it also included the dharmachakara. and Meander the 2nd wasn't the only one to print coins with Zeus on its coin. We also have artwork with Dionysios being produced by the Indo-Greeks as well.

This isn't to say that things with the deities won't change, that new stories won't come about. Buddhism have a strong presence in Greece for example might have more stuff like the Dionysiaca where Dionysios went to India and then returned west. Herakles is another obvious example since the indo-greeks regarded him as the protector of the Buddha. I can see more things like this arising in such a timeline.
 
The thing to note about Buddhism is that it is not a religiously exclusive religion. Prostlytizing, yes especially in this era. But it didn't demand that people give up their own Gods and Goddesses. One just has to look at China and Japan as other example.
It seems like this aspect of Buddhism really shouldn't hurt, and should kind of be helpful, if Buddhists are proselytizing hard.

I know Christianity and Islam, byt demanding exclusivity and opposing apostasy and not 'fighting fair' with other religions gain a long-term advantage in overpowering and burying them, but it seems like Buddhism compatibility with anybody's pantheon and multiple philosophies should make its initial spreading, 'infiltration' and ultimate 'residue' everywhere at least as broad.
 
I believe there's an ex-Buddhist poster here who once pointed out that Neoplatonism and Buddhism aren't likely to "mix well"
@CountPeter maybe?
Might be me you are thinking of. Whilst I am not too sure how strongly I still align with Buddhism, I have indeed made posts before talking about their incompatibility.
Depending on when it arrived, I could see it finding a good partner in Neo-Platonicism, which displayed some characteristics which already somewhat leaned in that direction.
Neo-Platonism and Buddhism are very philosophically opposed. There is a lot to cover, but essentially Buddhism grew in reaction to and in opposition to the Brahmanical religion (itself much closer to Neoplatonism), and particularly in its early form.

Before I get into this, it's worth prefacing that it's hard to get a fully definitive "Buddhism" in the same way that we might characterise western religious traditions. For example, we recognise Islam and Christianity to be distinct religions (if part of the same tradition), and yet the theology and philosophy of sects of Buddhism within the same country are world's more different whilst still acknowledging eachother as Buddhist. Pure Land for example (generally) doesn't recognise the ability for people to be enlightened in the modern world, instead looking for intercession on behalf of otherworldly Buddha's that change depending on tradition.

With that big aside, here are some of the reasons the Buddhism is philosophically incompatible with Neoplatonism.

Materialism: Buddhism wasn't in opposition to materialism, just as it wasn't in opposition to transcendentalism. Rather, Siddhartha taught a middle way both ethically (the world is both Nirvana and Samsara) and epistemologically (fitting somewhere between empiricist and rationalist thought). Siddhartha taught a level of connection with the material world strongly at odds with that of most Neoplatonist sects.
This also extended to the nature of existence, with the fundamentals of sunyata (emptiness) being about reality existing as phenomena, the only constant of which is change as opposed to the eternal emanations of Neoplatonism. This is important because...

Siddhartha did not teach that souls exist, which is a big problem for Neoplatonism. More to the point, nothing could exist like emanating forms or absolutes in platonic philosophy, because to the Buddhist world view we are connections between phenomena rather than static points in and of themselves.
This means that stuff like reincarnation is often misunderstood in early Buddhist literature, where it doesn't actually exist. Rather, a clear distinction is made between the brahminical reincarnation (in which we are all ultimately emanations of the monadesque brahma) and rebirth. This is because of Sunyata, or emptiness.
For context, the term itself is used as part of a metaphor using a jar. A jar is a container for something, with it's nature being changed by constantly changing conditions (time, what fills it, what doesn't fill it etc). A jar of peanut butter is not just a jar of peanut butter because it contains peanut butter, but because of all the things it DOESN'T contain at a given moment (like how a jar of peanut butter and jam is itself a new state of being). In turn, the concept of static identity is criticised in Buddhist literature because what defines us (our physical make up, our relations to others, our temporal and geographical location etc) never stop changing, like everything else. Reincarnation doesn't make sense within such a philosophy because the new "person" wouldn't be "you" even if there was a transmigration of the soul.
Instead, early Buddhist thought made the clear distinction of rebirth versus reincarnation. Rebirth is the way our karma (essentially causality applied to Sunyata) echoes throughout history. The Buddhist philosopher Nagarjuna (who was in many ways the Plato of Buddhism and debatable founder of Mahayana Buddhism) described this with the metaphor of a magician who's tricks inspire others to do the same tricks, perpetuating themselves.

Another point is that Buddhism (and this is pretty much true across most traditions throughout history), doesn't really care about a creator. Whilst Siddhartha expresses an attitude that doesn't care about the matter of god's (essentially a position that they too are trapped in samsara if they exist), the stories surrounding him go a step further. In one, he acknowledges not a demiurge, but the straight up source of the universe and still shows them to be stuck within the cycle of Samsara. Mortals are generally depicted to be in a better position to escape Samsara than even the dreamer from which the universe stems.


There's a lot more to it than that, but I don't want to derail the thread too heavily on this XD
 
Generally I think it's the epicureans who'd be most receptive to Buddhist ideas, which is especially useful given that epicurean communes are already kinda Buddhist monasteries.
 
It'd be interesting to see what Greek gods manage to win inclusion into a buddhist pantheon, and which ones are rejected completely. Otl in India, it was the minor devas that got accepted by the Buddhists, but those gods seen as being the one true monad, eg Vishnu and Shiva had to wait til a version of them had been thought of that was sufficiently powered down to not challenge the Buddha's teachings.

I think then, Isis, Zeus and Dionysus would not be included in a Greco buddhist pantheon- but people like Apollo or Hermes would be.
There was space for Guanyin and the fat monk Budai who would be the Maitreya, so I wouldn't count out Isis or Dionysus.

There's a lot more to it than that, but I don't want to derail the thread too heavily on this XD
Yeah, Buddhism is basically anti-Platonism, as far as I've grasped its concepts. :p
 
Attention ! The Christian writer Clement of Alexandria mentions the presence of a Buddhist community in Alexandria in Egypt, one part of which consisted of Indian traders and one part of local converts. And let us remember, the contacts not only commercial, but also cultural and scientific between the Indian world and the Mediterranean world, are very close until the Arab invasion, which interrupts them for a couple of centuries.

Now, as well highlighted in other posts, the question is not whether Buddhism has come into contact with the Greco-Roman world, because OTL took place.

The real question is to understand why, unlike the Indo-Greek states and Bactria, Macedonia, Syria and Egypt and then Rome, it was marginally successful.
 
I actually wrote a little write-up on this subject (particularly ATL Roman Buddhism) for a game in the Shared Worlds forum.

I won't claim that it's any good but here it is if people want to check it out:

Major Schools of Buddhism in Roman Empire
ca. 240

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1. Introduction
Although the loss of Persia greatly diminished the Buddhist population of the Roman Empire what remained were Buddhist communities that by this point, although still a minority, became strongly rooted in the eastern parts of the Empire. Within these communities many schools of tough unique to these western frontiers of Buddhist settlement emerged often merging Buddhist doctrines with local faiths and traditions following the doctrine of skillful means. Among these schools three major groups could be recognized: Hellenistic Schools (influenced by Greco-Roman beliefs), Buddhist-Gnostic Syncretism (merging Buddhism with the still prominent, even after persecution by the Roman authorities, Gnosticism) and Iranian Buddhism (syncretizing Iranian traditions including the Zoroastrian religion with Buddhism). That most members of that third group found themselves outside of the Roman sphere after the Chorasmian invasion of Persia and thus only one such school will be outline bellow.


2. Hellenistic Schools
  • Solar Buddhism (a.k.a Helio-Apollian Tradition or True Sun Sutra Sect) - Probably the oldest school of Roman Buddhism this sect bases it's beliefs on the True Sun Surta which teaches that the Sun is the object in the phenomenal world most closely reflecting the ultimate truth reveled in Buddha's teaching (thus people in their ignorance are unable to look at it without being blinded). Solar deities such as Apollo and Helios are revered as Divine Bodhisattvas being most enlightened among the gods and thus highest paragons of Buddhist teaching in the universe. This school is mainly popular among Greek speaking Buddhists in the eastern Roman provinces but is also the second most likely school to be followed by Romans themselves.​
  • Buddho-Epicureanism (a.k.a Garden Tradition) - The most likely school to be followed by Romans proper and the only prominent school with any significant following west of Greece. The so called Garden Tradition merges the Buddhist principles with previously somewath forgotten philosophical tradition of Epicureanism. Epicurus himself is revered as important Bodhisattva and his cosmological and ethical teachings are incorporated into the Buddho-Epicurean teachings (although in modified form - for example the school maintains that although seemingly the world consists of atoms and void the former are illusory and only the void is the ultimate reality). The school is distinguished by it's simple and small temples surrounded by big and lavish gardens.​
  • Great Queen Tradition (a.k.a Buddho-Isidism or Maternal Buddhism) - A school that emerged and remains the most popular in the great city of Alexandria. This strongly esoteric tradition follows the teaching revealed in the Sutra of the Great Queen which (through extremely symbolic and metaphorical language) speaks of ultimate female diety envisioned both as mother and consort of the universal and timeless Buddha. This godes is most often identified with the Egyptian Isis but also with the Roman Hestia, Anatolian Kybele and Mesopotamian Ishtar. In practice Buddho-Isidism is distinguished by it's esoteric magical rituals as well as extraordinary amount of female monastics which likely equals the number of their male counterparts.​
3. Buddhist-Gnostic Syncretism
  • Christo-Maitreyism (a.k.a Saviour's Sutra Tradition) - This school which is admittedly more widespread in the Roman client state of Armenia is also the most prominent Buddho-Gnostic Tradition in the Roman East. It's followers who are spread over Asia Minor and Mesopotamia believe that Christ and Maitreya Buddha promised by Shakyamuni Buddha are one and the same. According to their tradition he didn't die on the cross but instead left the human realm to preach the truth in other parts of the universe but will return on the Final Day to stop the Wheel of Ages and take the Pure to the Abode of Light. They also believe the God of the Old Testament to be Mara of Buddhist tradition while the different polytheistic gods of the Empire are regarded as lesser demons. Their Sangha is multi-tiered and the lesser ranks of monks are allowed to take wives and consume alcohol (but not meat).
  • Cappadocian Cave Tradition (a.k.a School of Utmost Denial) - This tradition found, as the name suggests, in the mountainous region of Asia Minor known as Cappadocia follows an extremely strict ascetic regime denying themselves food and even water for an extended periods of time (this is less extreme among the lay followers but even they fast often). The monks of this tradition live in natural caves or rough tunnels cut into mountain sides where they often meditate in complete darkness. They believe that matter is inherently evil and source of all suffering and that all living beings are parts of one Universal Transcendent Mind that have been imprisoned by malicious creator diety Ialdabaoth however through denying the matter one can break the Shackles of Creation and be reunified with the Universal Mind.​
  • Cult of the Light Bringer (a.k.a Luciferian Buddhism or Christo-Luciferism) - This cult believes that the Accuser of the Old Testament is the Good God of Light who stands in eternal opposition to the Evil God of Matter identified with the Jewish God. Through meditation many have received his light becoming Buddhas and Bodhisattvas but these superior beings were not able do destroy the Cage World of Matter from within and thus the Light Bringer himself became incarnated in the person of Christ to ultimately (through miracles and resurrection) deny the reality of material world. Before he ascended back to the True World of Light he warned that the days of the Cage World are counted and those who remain ignorant will be destroyed with it.​
4. Other Prominent Schools
  • Timeless Flame Sect (a.k.a Buddho-Ormuzdian Tradition) - The only of the Buddho-Zoroastrian traditions with significant following in the Roman Empire after the loss of Persia. The followers of this school (concentrated primarily in southern Mesopotamia) believe that the Iranian Dieties are manifestations of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas send to the Iranian peoples to pave way for the Buddhist Teachings. In this tradition Ahura Mazda is identified with the Primordial Buddha and represented by ever-burning flame.​
  • God Crushers (a.k.a Cypriot Iconoclasts or Transcendent Master Sect) - An infamous sect active almost exclusively on the isle of Cyprus. The God Crushers follow the the teachings of monk known by the name Kenotis who taught that worshiping gods (especialy by creating their depictions and sacrificing before them) is the sign of utmost ignorance. Although the tradition does not deny the existence of the gods (at least no more than any other being) they believe that any being that accepts the teachings of Buddha will not want to be worshiped and those who don't are noth worthy of respect in the first place. The sect despite it's local character is particularly infamous due to the implementation of it's ideas which involve smashing the statues of gods and burning their temples. Althoug many of them have been severely punished (often by death) by the local magistrates the sect still persists.​
 
I actually wrote a little write-up on this subject (particularly ATL Roman Buddhism) for a game in the Shared Worlds forum.

I won't claim that it's any good but here it is if people want to check it out:
They're all wonderful!
I am particularly intrigued by the Great Queen Tradition
If you ever think about expanding on any of these, please tag me so I can follow the thread immediately!
 
There's the classic

 
The real question is to understand why, unlike the Indo-Greek states and Bactria, Macedonia, Syria and Egypt and then Rome, it was marginally successful.
Probably because it was mostly limited to the Merchants and upper class, with it not being really a mass faith per say(I am basing this off what Buddhism was like in India, If I am getting any of this wrong then please tell me) followed by your average Joe farmer. Buddhist Monasteries were also pretty economically unviable due to the fact its monks relied pretty much entirely on the laity to see to their needs. So where Buddhism spread successfully and took off it was usually adopted by Kings who granted large amounts of land and wealth to the Sanga, and as no Roman Emperor really seemed to give a fuck, it never really took of.
 
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