AHC: Buddhist or Hindu Europe
- Thread starter Tredecimus
- Start date
No problem, but I am intrigued by the comparisons between Hinduism and the various Germanic, Celtic, Slavic, and Greco-Roman pagan religions, as they all have roots in the Indo-European language family. If you have some insights into the major philosophical differences, I'd really like to hear about them. I wonder what kind of religious interactions there would be between Europe and the Hindu cultures of India in a world where Europe remains pagan.
Other than Greco-Roman religion, the other European "pagan religions" were all practiced in pre-literate societies. We know so little about these pagan belief systems. Some may have been shamanistic or expressed various flavors of animism. Mostly our knowledge has been based on propagandistic accounts from everyone from Julius Caesar to the Christian church.
I therefore think that it is only possible to generalize the philosophical differences.
There are of course general parallels that can be made between the Hindu and the Greco-Roman pantheon. There are also analogous myths speaking to the general human condition. Some people see coincidence, others a common heritage separated by 1000s of years.
Some have commented on Orphism (Orphic mysteries---liberation of soul from chains of the body) and some streams of Hinduism being very much alike.
Philosophically, the Platonic view of the complete independence of soul and body --only when the soul transcends the body can it reach out towards true reality, only then obtaining "truth"-- has echoes of Hindu and Buddhist thought.
I've been thinking about the Hindu Europe idea some more, and, what about the Roma as the facilitators? In OTL, the Roma tended to adopt Christianity and Islam as they spread into the Middle East and Europe. In a world where Europe remains pagan, it's not impossible to imagine that an alternate version of the Roma still might end up migrating into Europe.
Of course a pagan Europe entails numerous butterflies - the Roma didn't begin migrating from the Indian Subcontinent until about five centuries after the birth of Christianity, according to the earliest accepted theories of their origins. Other traditional theories of Roma origins entail the existence of Islam, with the rise of the Ghazvanids around the Hindu Kush.
Still, the fact that the Roma did reach Europe in OTL implies that the spread of a wandering minority group of Indian origin to Europe is plausible. All you would need is an alternate population pressure in northwestern India to displace them.
So, without further ado, Europe remains pagan, and this alternate version of the Roma is pushed into Europe by some warfare or power struggle going on around their homeland. Political unrest in the Hindu Kush region is probable in any timeline given that the region is a crossroads of many empires and cultural groups between the Indian, Persian, and Central Asian cultural spheres, so it's not difficult to propose such a situation.
The Roma bring with them their indigenous religious beliefs, which are most definitely some form of Hinduism, perhaps Shaktism (OTL Roma culture has many ties to Hindu beliefs, and the Roma are believes to connect to Indian ethnic groups such as the Domba, the Banjara, and the Jats, all of which practiced Hinduism historically). Just as OTL Roman pagans and Germanic pagans readily adopted foreign ideas, the European pagans take note of the Roma religious beliefs, and perhaps adopt Hindu deities into the pre-established pantheons in addition to other Roma Hindu beliefs. Religious interactions between the Roma and the native populations in this world are probably not as one-sided as a world where Western Eurasia is dominated by Abrahamic religions but more congenial, with Roma incorporating native beliefs into their own worldviews and natives possibly doing the same.
Perhaps the introduction of Hindu beliefs into European paganism by way of these alternate Roma paves the way for later European interest in Hinduism once technology allows for direct, faster, and more frequent contact between Europe and India...
Of course a pagan Europe entails numerous butterflies - the Roma didn't begin migrating from the Indian Subcontinent until about five centuries after the birth of Christianity, according to the earliest accepted theories of their origins. Other traditional theories of Roma origins entail the existence of Islam, with the rise of the Ghazvanids around the Hindu Kush.
Still, the fact that the Roma did reach Europe in OTL implies that the spread of a wandering minority group of Indian origin to Europe is plausible. All you would need is an alternate population pressure in northwestern India to displace them.
So, without further ado, Europe remains pagan, and this alternate version of the Roma is pushed into Europe by some warfare or power struggle going on around their homeland. Political unrest in the Hindu Kush region is probable in any timeline given that the region is a crossroads of many empires and cultural groups between the Indian, Persian, and Central Asian cultural spheres, so it's not difficult to propose such a situation.
The Roma bring with them their indigenous religious beliefs, which are most definitely some form of Hinduism, perhaps Shaktism (OTL Roma culture has many ties to Hindu beliefs, and the Roma are believes to connect to Indian ethnic groups such as the Domba, the Banjara, and the Jats, all of which practiced Hinduism historically). Just as OTL Roman pagans and Germanic pagans readily adopted foreign ideas, the European pagans take note of the Roma religious beliefs, and perhaps adopt Hindu deities into the pre-established pantheons in addition to other Roma Hindu beliefs. Religious interactions between the Roma and the native populations in this world are probably not as one-sided as a world where Western Eurasia is dominated by Abrahamic religions but more congenial, with Roma incorporating native beliefs into their own worldviews and natives possibly doing the same.
Perhaps the introduction of Hindu beliefs into European paganism by way of these alternate Roma paves the way for later European interest in Hinduism once technology allows for direct, faster, and more frequent contact between Europe and India...
This. I think this is very interesting as the Roma people are often over looked as the facilitators of bringing some knowledge of the Indian culture and religion to Christian Europe, like palmistry, astrology etc.
And there was also more seriously trade links with indians, who went all the way to China, by sea... it's possible that buddhism or such could have seeped into an eastern part, depending on butterflies.
Now, staying and taking roots...
(On the subject of Romas, I had once an idea of conversion to Islam to gain a certain.. more advantaged status for another thread, but it's another subject.)
Hinduism would take a bit of work, but any lasting contact between the Greco-Bactrians and the Seleucid Levant could readily get Buddhism's proverbial foot in the door (some suspect that Jesus of Nazareth was more than a little influenced by the latter).
If Buddhism caught on among the Arabs or was transmitted along the Steppe it may reach Europe later, but getting more than a foothold once Christianity became established (and liable to kill heretics with state authority) would take rather more work.
If Buddhism caught on among the Arabs or was transmitted along the Steppe it may reach Europe later, but getting more than a foothold once Christianity became established (and liable to kill heretics with state authority) would take rather more work.