Will Kürlich Kerl
Banned
Challenge: Have Basque be the majority-spoken language in the Iberian Peninsula instead of Castillian.
AHC: Basque Wank
- Thread starter Will Kürlich Kerl
- Start date
Augustus or a TTL Emperor creates a Vascones client state that later becomes it's own province instead of merging with Hispania Tarraconensis. When and if the WRE collapses, the best possible outcome would be for Vasconia (if Hispania breaks free) to fight off the barbarians and claim hegemony over the peninsula. It's language, blood and culture would spread throughout Hispania until all future languages in the Middle Ages/Renaissance are descended from Classical Basque. Bonus points if they colonize America like IOTL.
Tate the Brewer
Banned
This one is highly problematic without some kind of a Indo-European POD... which is entirely plausible. Not enough people on this forum seem to be keen on totally rewriting history. Lurking, I've seen a couple of attempts, but they all seem to die.
But yeah, Lusitanian may not have been a Celtic language - it's not very well documented, so we can't really tell. Was the Indo-European /p/ retained in earlier Celtic dialects? Our definition of Celtic today rests on the languages that we have the most data on, which lost that /p/, though it is entirely possible that it was something like /f/ in Romance languages early on, that is, a highly unreliable sound change on which to begin classifying linguistic affiliations within the family, since /f/ turns into /h/ and disappears in a number of Romance languages in different branches. Maybe the loss of /p/ was something that had become predominant in the family by the time of Roman arrival, but Lusitanian could still have been said to be closer to Celtiberian (which retained /kw/ in place of /p/, a la Goidelic but almost certainly independently) than to Gallic and Brythonic. If it was a Celtic language, then you just need to butterfly the Celtic invasion of Iberia... assuming Iberian was related to Basque. If it wasn't Celtic, and is in fact representative of a different group of dialects that invaded the area even earlier (perhaps related to some of the languages in Sicily, or maybe Venetic?), then you're going to need to butterfly Indo-European migrations... which is not ASB at all, I don't think, it just changes everything.
But yeah, Lusitanian may not have been a Celtic language - it's not very well documented, so we can't really tell. Was the Indo-European /p/ retained in earlier Celtic dialects? Our definition of Celtic today rests on the languages that we have the most data on, which lost that /p/, though it is entirely possible that it was something like /f/ in Romance languages early on, that is, a highly unreliable sound change on which to begin classifying linguistic affiliations within the family, since /f/ turns into /h/ and disappears in a number of Romance languages in different branches. Maybe the loss of /p/ was something that had become predominant in the family by the time of Roman arrival, but Lusitanian could still have been said to be closer to Celtiberian (which retained /kw/ in place of /p/, a la Goidelic but almost certainly independently) than to Gallic and Brythonic. If it was a Celtic language, then you just need to butterfly the Celtic invasion of Iberia... assuming Iberian was related to Basque. If it wasn't Celtic, and is in fact representative of a different group of dialects that invaded the area even earlier (perhaps related to some of the languages in Sicily, or maybe Venetic?), then you're going to need to butterfly Indo-European migrations... which is not ASB at all, I don't think, it just changes everything.
How's about:
1.) In the fourth and fifth centuries AD, the Basque people take advantage of the general chaos surrounding the fall of the Roman Empire to extend their territory, spreading out over much of modern Cantabria, Asturias and Galicia. Basque becomes the majority language in these areas.
2.) The next few hundred years proceed much as IOTL: the Visigoths become the dominant power in Iberia, but have great difficulty subduing the Basques, who keep their language and culture.
3.) The Muslim invasion sees the Visigothic kingdom taken over. The northern parts of the peninsular are able to maintain their independence due to the difficult mountainous terrain they inhabit.
4.) As IOTL, the northern kingdoms gradually complete their Reconquista against the Moors. Their nobility are Basque-speakers, and this becomes the prestige language. Local populations gradually start adopting Basque themselves, albeit with a generous admixture of Spanish/Vulgar Latin elements.
5.) The Spanish Empire, when it comes along, spreads Basque throughout the Americas.
I am not sure that Basques can found suitable colony. And Brits or French or someone else strong power would take colony quickly.
Just thought I'd get the deliberate misunderstandings
out of the way here and now.
????
Why Basque, in particular?
Problem here is that by this time the Kingdom of Navarre did not use the Basque language, but the Aragonese one.
In fact, Basque language has never used in the administration until the 20th century. Even the earlier Kingdoms used Latin or another Romance language (Aragonese or Castilian); Basque language was confined to rural areas and fishers/whalers from a very very early period.
SinghKing
Banned
What about in an ATL in which the Duchy of Vasconia (Gascony) retains a greater focus on the Basque culture (with Gascon emerging as an undisputedly Basque language rather a creole Romance-Basque language, as it did IOTL)? IOTL, the Gascon ducal family became tied to the rising Kingdom of Navarre by matrimonial alliances at the end of the 10th century, eventually bringing Gascony suzerain to King Sancho III of Navarre ("the Great") for a short period up to 1035. After Sancho the Great's reign, Gascony again became distanced from Pamplona, and by 1053, Gascony had officially been inherited and conquered by the Duchy of Aquitania. So, for a potential POD- WI Gascony had officially become fully unified with the Kingdom of Navarre instead, expanding the Basque Country ITTL to encompass the majority of OTL's Gascony as well? With his inheritance expanded to include the region of Gascony as well, could García Sánchez III, Sancho the Great's official heir, have been capable of averting the partition of the Kingdom of Navarre?
EDIT: But even then, it'd be virtually impossible to do what the OP's asking. It'd be the equivalent of asking for a Mongol-wank in which Mongolian has to become the majority-spoken language in East China instead of Chinese.
EDIT: But even then, it'd be virtually impossible to do what the OP's asking. It'd be the equivalent of asking for a Mongol-wank in which Mongolian has to become the majority-spoken language in East China instead of Chinese.
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