Lateknight
Banned
It is clearly impossible for a western country to become a dictatorship in the 20th century such a thing couldn't happen western counties are too civilized for such things .
AHC: Australia a Rogue State
- Thread starter CthulhuFhtagn
- Start date
It is clearly impossible for a western country to become a dictatorship in the 20th century such a thing couldn't happen western counties are too civilized for such things .
U.S David
Banned
Have the ''White Only'' policy become much more extreame. Maybe after the Civil War, a lot of confederates come here. Yeah I know after 1900.
Maybe after WW2, many ex-Nazis come. Then have all of Asia communist. This will scare Australia into having nukes.
Maybe there is a Black revolution in South Africa, and Australia accepts all their ''white brothers''.
Plus have the Soviet Union control all of Europe, this will increase the white population.
Maybe after WW2, many ex-Nazis come. Then have all of Asia communist. This will scare Australia into having nukes.
Maybe there is a Black revolution in South Africa, and Australia accepts all their ''white brothers''.
Plus have the Soviet Union control all of Europe, this will increase the white population.
What about those countries that came under far right regimes like Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany? How do you explain them?
THANK-YOU!
But perhaps as some have suggested, the White Australia policy is pursued more aggressively? As US David suggested, perhaps have more of Asia fall to Communism and Australia becomes paranoid and aggressive?
Lateknight
Banned
What about those countries that came under far right regimes like Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany? How do you explain them?
That was my point people act like western counties could never possibly be so uncivilized when history tells us different.
If the White Australia policy is pursued more actively there won't even be minorities to be oppressed, excepting the Aboriginies and handful of other non-Whites in Australia. To make Australia into a racist dictatorship or whatever (as opposed to an ordinary dictatorship) Australia needs to be imperialistic. Otherwise there just aren't enough minorities to oppress.
U.S David
Banned
I can see Great Britain divideing the Empire into spheres of reapoblity for the Domainons.
Canada get the Americas
South Africa gets Southern Africa
Australia for Asia and Pacific
Australia would now be in charge of all Imperail Strongeholds in Asia
This is easy enough to do. Australia was given a mandate over New Guinea and (some of) the formerly German Pacific colonies in OTL following WWI. This gives you a large non-white population. Australia just needs to hold onto these permanently. This could occur if Japan is more aggressive during the interwar period, and could also lead to the development of a "siege mentality" in Australia and intensification (if this is even possible, given OTL...) of "Yellow Peril" propaganda.
The question is, though, how do you get from OTL to "Apartheid South Africa , but in the South Pacific." Maybe an earlier confrontation between the Western powers and Japan, with Australia reaping some of the spoils? And an earlier realignment of Australia from the UK to the US?
The road to ruin can be paved with good intentions.
I don't think you even have to go that far, have Australia decide to keep Papua New Guinea past its 'Mandate status' similar to what South Africa did with Namibia by citing security concerns as well as the instability of nearby states to justify challenging Indonesia's annexation of West Guinea. Then from there Australian foreign policy and the military get plucky by a more American favorable outcome in Vietnam so when Indonesia decides they want to step in on East Timor in 1975, have Australian forces play a more direct roll then simply being a means of evacuation.
Perhaps it a similar way the 1999-2006 Peacekeeping operation was done (without UN approval) but with the added flare of flying a few of though recently acquired F-111Cs from 1973 will show the Indonesians who's boss setting the stage for shaky relations between Australia and the rest of Southeast Asia for some time to come.
I don't think you even have to go that far, have Australia decide to keep Papua New Guinea past its 'Mandate status' similar to what South Africa did with Namibia by citing security concerns as well as the instability of nearby states to justify challenging Indonesia's annexation of West Guinea. Then from there Australian foreign policy and the military get plucky by a more American favorable outcome in Vietnam so when Indonesia decides they want to step in on East Timor in 1975, have Australian forces play a more direct roll then simply being a means of evacuation.
Perhaps it a similar way the 1999-2006 Peacekeeping operation was done (without UN approval) but with the added flare of flying a few of though recently acquired F-111Cs from 1973 will show the Indonesians who's boss setting the stage for shaky relations between Australia and the rest of Southeast Asia for some time to come.
It is an intriguing question but other advanced countries full of nice people and robust institutions have taken sudden and sharp new turns that made them pariahs.
Some POD's (vague):
1. Australia is a success in exporting Communism to it in the 1920's or 30's and the Communists gain a majority to start adjusting things their way. Big POD wouldn't be the effort by the Reds but a much higher degree of success to the point it becomes a Soviet client state in fact if not in name (while working to convert other Commonwealth nations to the Soviet line.) POD put some of the British agents for Stalin like Kim Philby's Cambridge cell transferred to Australia to monitor Japan and Chinese events in the 1930's (not unlike the Chinese fall.)
2. Australia feels underappreciated and ground down by Britain and deeply bitter about the squandering of the soldiers it sent in World War I with a veteran of Gallipoli following Hitler's path and leading to a Fascist state conversion in the 1920's contemporary with Mussolini and ahead of Hitler. As a Fascist-controlled government leaving the Commonwealth as it can and either relatively passive in WWII like Spain, Argentina, Portugal, Brazil, etc. or an active partner of the Japanese focused on assuring it's own access to petroleum by seizing some of the oilfields in the Dutch East Indies and serving as a huge problem for both the Brits and Americans in the Pacific, perhaps insuperable...so the Axis doesn't fail in the Pacific or it takes many more nuclear bombs to end it.
3. Australia falls under a charismatic religious cult leader who may or may not ever gain formal political office but so influences policies for years that the continent becomes ever stranger and more distant (lots of examples in history there.)
4. Highly contagious disease with horrific effects results in Australia being quarantined for many years by the rest of the world while escapees and traders accidentally infect enough of the immediate neighbors that the quarantine only grows stronger and more violent. So an inadvertent pariah among nations that becomes deeply embittered, desperate, and isolated/forgotten. The Spanish Influenza epidemic of 1918-20 would be a good model or the attributed culprit with few POD's.
Some POD's (vague):
1. Australia is a success in exporting Communism to it in the 1920's or 30's and the Communists gain a majority to start adjusting things their way. Big POD wouldn't be the effort by the Reds but a much higher degree of success to the point it becomes a Soviet client state in fact if not in name (while working to convert other Commonwealth nations to the Soviet line.) POD put some of the British agents for Stalin like Kim Philby's Cambridge cell transferred to Australia to monitor Japan and Chinese events in the 1930's (not unlike the Chinese fall.)
2. Australia feels underappreciated and ground down by Britain and deeply bitter about the squandering of the soldiers it sent in World War I with a veteran of Gallipoli following Hitler's path and leading to a Fascist state conversion in the 1920's contemporary with Mussolini and ahead of Hitler. As a Fascist-controlled government leaving the Commonwealth as it can and either relatively passive in WWII like Spain, Argentina, Portugal, Brazil, etc. or an active partner of the Japanese focused on assuring it's own access to petroleum by seizing some of the oilfields in the Dutch East Indies and serving as a huge problem for both the Brits and Americans in the Pacific, perhaps insuperable...so the Axis doesn't fail in the Pacific or it takes many more nuclear bombs to end it.
3. Australia falls under a charismatic religious cult leader who may or may not ever gain formal political office but so influences policies for years that the continent becomes ever stranger and more distant (lots of examples in history there.)
4. Highly contagious disease with horrific effects results in Australia being quarantined for many years by the rest of the world while escapees and traders accidentally infect enough of the immediate neighbors that the quarantine only grows stronger and more violent. So an inadvertent pariah among nations that becomes deeply embittered, desperate, and isolated/forgotten. The Spanish Influenza epidemic of 1918-20 would be a good model or the attributed culprit with few POD's.
oh come on, penrith isn't that bad and they can always catch the train to get out.
White Australia ended partly out of necessity: you want to do ambitious post-war development, you need free workers to build the things. You could have a POD where immigration restrictions are relaxed but at a minimum, with the migrant workers being third-class non-citizens and mistreated like in OTL Dubai. The further into the present that gets, the worse Australia will look.
Alternatively, Australia was still administering the Territory of Papua and New Guinea at the time - if they have to bring in foreign workers, Australia decides to use the 'natives' it already has and encourages/pressgangs them into coming over. In OTL Australia gradually gave more control to Guinea after the war; here, they need the cheap labour so they drag it out and they drag it out and they'll do it soon and eventually they don't make an excuse. When the Guineas go to the UN, TTL's Australia tells the UN to back off.
And then you've got a white-majority developed nation that owns a non-white developing nation in the late 20th century, on top of the status of the aboriginals (their lot won't improve in a state that runs off indentured servants). Australia's not going to be a popular state but as long as the Cold War's going on, Canberra doesn't need to care too much because the US and UK will always have to back it!
Alternatively, Australia was still administering the Territory of Papua and New Guinea at the time - if they have to bring in foreign workers, Australia decides to use the 'natives' it already has and encourages/pressgangs them into coming over. In OTL Australia gradually gave more control to Guinea after the war; here, they need the cheap labour so they drag it out and they drag it out and they'll do it soon and eventually they don't make an excuse. When the Guineas go to the UN, TTL's Australia tells the UN to back off.
And then you've got a white-majority developed nation that owns a non-white developing nation in the late 20th century, on top of the status of the aboriginals (their lot won't improve in a state that runs off indentured servants). Australia's not going to be a popular state but as long as the Cold War's going on, Canberra doesn't need to care too much because the US and UK will always have to back it!
One POD for that: the 1916 plebiscite on conscription. Let's say it passes by a small majority instead of fails and now conscription is in, Australia is no longer just sending a volunteer force. More Australians die, are injured, and are traumatised (because there's more Australians) and many of them didn't want to be, and the public mood can sour. Add this new factor to OTL Australia's desire for reparations and fear of a rising Japan, and industrial unrest in the 1920s; some of which is going to be worse becaue of how WW1 went. ("I was sent to the Somme and all I got out of it is Pappua?") And now here's fascism, this glamorous new system that makes countries strong and makes social problems go away and look how everyone listens to Fat Benny.
And then there'll be the Great Depression. That could be what brings the fascists to power.
Now I don't see Fascist Australia wanting to buddy up to Japan but yeah, this path leads to a nastier Pacific theatre for the Allies even if Australia is neutral.
EDIT:
And there's that too! Even if the rest of Australia helds off fascism, the west could be breaking away in order to go all blackshirt all the time. And then we know why Fascist Australia is neutral: it has to be, it's only the western part, it can't join the war without help.
In that case, who'd make a "good" Australofascist leader? I also predict a lot of usage of the Eureka flag.
Pangur
Donor
This is pretty much impossible. The only way would be for Australia to have allied with the South African Apartheid state fully in the 60's and kept pushing the white Australia line. The alliance with the Boers would have to go as far as open cooperation with them developing nukes and having Aussie troops deployed there
Son of Leman Russ
Banned
Have Australia develop Nuclear missile in 2000s, and one day, 1 megaton nuclear missile accidentally launch and do a groundburst at Singapore, in 2014
Congrats for making All Asia to hate Australia now
Congrats for making All Asia to hate Australia now
Monash. And there'd be no Eureka flag. For more details histories of the White Army, Old Guard and New Guard should help. Cathcart's Defending the National Tuckshop is useful. Sam R.
Riain
Banned
In contrast to others I believe the Immigration Restriction Act of 1901 is why Australia didn't go batshit crazy, and why that fuckstick De Groote and the New Guard didn't do much in the interwar years.
Most of the worst countries have significant internal minorities to oppress, so opening Australia up to unrestricted immigration could lead to a significant minority to oppress. A significant external enemy would be handy as well, perhaps have Indonesia become independent as well; indeed a large Indonesian minority and an Indonesia independent by the time of the Depression might be enough for Australia to turn.
Most of the worst countries have significant internal minorities to oppress, so opening Australia up to unrestricted immigration could lead to a significant minority to oppress. A significant external enemy would be handy as well, perhaps have Indonesia become independent as well; indeed a large Indonesian minority and an Indonesia independent by the time of the Depression might be enough for Australia to turn.
The White or White British preference was policy in more than just Australia till well after the war. NZ got rid of it about the same time, the early 1970s. IIRC Canada had something similar till a bit earlier (1960s?). I don't think it was particularly controversial till about then either, even though that does seem quite mad now.
As others have said, the policies were dismantled for a few reasons, discrimination removal being one, another being demand. The traditional sources of migration were not deemed enough to fill the demand for new migrants.
As others have said, the policies were dismantled for a few reasons, discrimination removal being one, another being demand. The traditional sources of migration were not deemed enough to fill the demand for new migrants.