AHC : America discovers Europe

[Falecius]

There's an old story about mexicans landing in the elbe mouth area around 60 bc, but the original account makes it basically certain that they were from India.

"When he [Celer] was proconsul in Gaul, he was presented with certain Indians as a present by the king of the Boti; asking whence they had come to these lands, he learned they had been seized by a storm from Indian waters, that they had traveled across the regions between, and at last landed on the German shores"(Pliny).

This indicates that their language was at least known.

I don't see what in this short account makes you think they might have been Mexicans.
The language bit, however, is not certain. They could have learned the language of a local Germanic people and used it to communicate with the Romans (via interpreters I'd guess). India was relatively well known to the Romans; I suppose they would not have called "Indians" people that were clearly totally different from actual Indians. Perhaps they would have referred to them as people from less known areas such as Chryse or Serica. OTOH, Chryse (likely what is now the Malay Peninsula) COULD have been considered "India" in ancient Roman geography (and in later European ones, of course ).
However, Pliny was of course aware of the Earth's true shape, so that "regions between" might be a reference to the Ocean, either crossed directly or through a *Northeast passage. I don't think it's a likely interpretation, since news about the possibility to cross the Ocean directly and staying alive would have likely made a sensation even at the time.
A *Cape Route was known to be at least theoretically possible, so seems the most "normal" way interpretation in Roman eyes. One wonders, however, if the account is true, how they actually got there.

 

[pa_dutch]

India was relatively well known to the Romans; I suppose they would not have called "Indians" people that were clearly totally different from actual Indians.

...But then, Italians and Spaniards made just that mistake when they sailed across the Atlantic Ocean and found the native people living there, and actual Indians who wandered into medieval Europe were confused with Egyptians (Romani "Gypsies"). Historical accounts are full of such false correlations, and I doubt a Roman living in Gaul would have much experience with people from India, itself a hugely multiethnic region with many languages unfamiliar to even the most educated Roman minds.

 

[Thesaurus Rex]

The Mayans had a maritime tradition. I believe that they traded with Cuba. We visited an archaeological site in Florida that some anthropologists believe had Mayan influence.

So they're finally giving that some credence eh? It always seemed like an obvious possibility to me, and I think I remember reading some of Columbus' logs hinting at the possibility of trading with the Yucatan peninsula.

I've also read about the Chontal Maya using large plank-built boats with square-rig sails to accomplish this, along with a modeled route using known wind patterns like the Gulf loop current that tends to coincide with sites thought to have Maya influence. But I don't yet have a solid source for that stuff (other than the Examiner :\ ...). That's just one of the many things on my 'peculiar anthropological stuff I need to take time to sit down one day and investigate thoroughly' list.

 

[Falecius]

...But then, Italians and Spaniards made just that mistake when they sailed across the Atlantic Ocean and found the native people living there, and actual Indians who wandered into medieval Europe were confused with Egyptians (Romani "Gypsies"). Historical accounts are full of such false correlations, and I doubt a Roman living in Gaul would have much experience with people from India, itself a hugely multiethnic region with many languages unfamiliar to even the most educated Roman minds.

True.
But on the other hand, the Roman Empire was a huge interconnected whole, encompassing all the shores of the Med, as opposed to Medieval Europe. Knowledge flows were likely decent.
The first European explorers of the Americas were going there precisely on the assumption (although that could have been in bad faith pretty soon) that it was "India", in a geographical acception of the term that was not, AFAIK, supported by classical terminology.
I would guess that Romans in 100 AD had a generally better (more detailed) knowledge of places like India than what was available in around 1400 AD. Of course, this is speculation.

 

[frustrated progressive]

I don't see what in this short account makes you think they might have been Mexicans.
The language bit, however, is not certain. They could have learned the language of a local Germanic people and used it to communicate with the Romans (via interpreters I'd guess). India was relatively well known to the Romans; I suppose they would not have called "Indians" people that were clearly totally different from actual Indians. Perhaps they would have referred to them as people from less known areas such as Chryse or Serica. OTOH, Chryse (likely what is now the Malay Peninsula) COULD have been considered "India" in ancient Roman geography (and in later European ones, of course ).
However, Pliny was of course aware of the Earth's true shape, so that "regions between" might be a reference to the Ocean, either crossed directly or through a *Northeast passage. I don't think it's a likely interpretation, since news about the possibility to cross the Ocean directly and staying alive would have likely made a sensation even at the time.
A *Cape Route was known to be at least theoretically possible, so seems the most "normal" way interpretation in Roman eyes. One wonders, however, if the account is true, how they actually got there.

Did you guys read any of what I wrote above and below the article? Them being from india is the point I'm making!

 

[Falecius]

Did you guys read any of what I wrote above and below the article? Them being from india is the point I'm making!

yeah, I got your point.

 

[Emperor RyRy]

I think that the South Americans... or maybe even Haida or advanced Californians... could contacts Asia, which, depending on the time, could be more important than discovering America.

 

[Zlorfik]

Did you guys read any of what I wrote above and below the article? Them being from india is the point I'm making!

The implausibility of either scenario is on a similar order of magnitude

 

[zoomar]

I've also read about the Chontal Maya using large plank-built boats with square-rig sails to accomplish this, along with a modeled route using known wind patterns like the Gulf loop current that tends to coincide with sites thought to have Maya influence. But I don't yet have a solid source for that stuff (other than the Examiner :\ ...). That's just one of the many things on my 'peculiar anthropological stuff I need to take time to sit down one day and investigate thoroughly' list.

I sure would like to see this in a serious academic refereed journal. I am unaware of any plank built boats and square rigged sails in pre-Columbian MesoAmerica.

 

[Hierophant]

The spanish smade first contact with people from the Incan empire when their caravel happened upon a fiber ship with cotton sails.