I don’t really think it’s very likely, if Denmark gain anything major like Puerto Rico, it would be a bribe for taking part in a conflict, which benefitted them little in Europe. So it would pretty much need to be the Spanish Succession War, but the only way I could see Denmark join that war, would be if France hadn’t shown Denmark in Scanian War why you don’t mess with it or its allies.
AHC: Alternative Scrambles for the West Indies
- Thread starter Jfoul
- Start date
I don’t really think it’s very likely, if Denmark gain anything major like Puerto Rico, it would be a bribe for taking part in a conflict, which benefitted them little in Europe. So it would pretty much need to be the Spanish Succession War, but the only way I could see Denmark join that war, would be if France hadn’t shown Denmark in Scanian War why you don’t mess with it or its allies.
Another fun POD is Cozumel becoming a US territory by way of the Republic of Texas.
In 1837, the Texas navy claimed the island for the Republic of Texas (http://everythingcozumel.com/cozumel-history/cozumel-texas/). Had Texas maintained the claim, Cozumel would like become a federal territory of the USA upon Texas' entrance to the Union in 1845.
In 1837, the Texas navy claimed the island for the Republic of Texas (http://everythingcozumel.com/cozumel-history/cozumel-texas/). Had Texas maintained the claim, Cozumel would like become a federal territory of the USA upon Texas' entrance to the Union in 1845.
I have always wondered how a more U.S. influenced Carribbean would have looked like? Statehood not likely until post WW2, but a larger territorial presence and its impact?
Or does a "Government of Free Texas" form there opposed to statehood...
There’s Providence Island, a colony for English Puritans that ended up as a privateer base before getting conquered by Spain. If it avoided its many colonial missteps maybe it could stay English if not Puritan.
Maybe Scotland could get something if they targeted somewhere else for the Darien Scheme, it’s hard to imagine things going worse than OTL.
Maybe Scotland could get something if they targeted somewhere else for the Darien Scheme, it’s hard to imagine things going worse than OTL.
I have wondered about this as well. France also regained Senegal but still, it seems like not a very equitable outcome, considering the value of Caribbean islands at the time.
Did the representatives in the peace talks know exactly which territories had been conquered?
A Louisiana full of polders and canals could be fun indeed, though the Dutch would also have to adapt to the regular storms and hurricanes. New Amsterdam instead of New Orleans... Also that would give them a good hold on the Gulf of Mexico.
So :
1) A better administration of the Company of Scotland and then expanding from Darien
or
2) Picking a better first location to settle, but in the 1690s, there doesn't seem to be that many good spots left, maybe start the Scheme earlier ?
Denmark population was small compared to other European nations so I wonder how they could properly settle... "Righavn" does have a ring to it though.
A Maltese archipelago sounds great ! They would probably be a bit of an oddity compared to the rest of the Caribbean, but looking at how they sustain and evolve through the centuries could make for a great timeline.
I thought the region of New Orleans had very different waterproblems than the Netherlands has.
Then I suppose that Florida is also too major for Denmark to gain.
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Not really Florida was pretty much worthless until the 19th century, and in the 19th century it was just near worthless.
Very interesting subject but also very vast!
Between 1500 and 1900 the West Indies very often changed hands depending on conflicts, belligerents, victories and defeats. It is thus very easy to find oneself with totally different colonial empires, the question being to know which POD and which period one uses.
What can be amusing indeed is to bring nations to have more control over the West Indies or even bring nations that have not colonized the OTL region.
I once saw a duchy of Mecklenburg take possession of a few islands on a map. But another idea that I find amusing is the colonial empire of the Curland Duchy that had OTL control over Tobago and Trinidad (and Gambia in Africa). One could imagine a successful 17th century for Poland, which keeps the Curland Spit under its suzerainty and supports the Curland settlement attempts. Then the Curland spit goes bankrupt and Poland buys Tobago and Trinidad. Poland ends up with a small colonial empire.
Between 1500 and 1900 the West Indies very often changed hands depending on conflicts, belligerents, victories and defeats. It is thus very easy to find oneself with totally different colonial empires, the question being to know which POD and which period one uses.
What can be amusing indeed is to bring nations to have more control over the West Indies or even bring nations that have not colonized the OTL region.
I once saw a duchy of Mecklenburg take possession of a few islands on a map. But another idea that I find amusing is the colonial empire of the Curland Duchy that had OTL control over Tobago and Trinidad (and Gambia in Africa). One could imagine a successful 17th century for Poland, which keeps the Curland Spit under its suzerainty and supports the Curland settlement attempts. Then the Curland spit goes bankrupt and Poland buys Tobago and Trinidad. Poland ends up with a small colonial empire.
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This is what I heard when there was a newsitem a couple of years back about New Orleans and why they didn't simply build dkes like we do. They said that in the New Orleans region there were several differences between the situation in the Netherlands so that simply building dikes was not enough. I can't remember it exactly what the differences were. But at least one major difference is that there simply are any hurricanes in the Netherlands. Also I believe a major problem is that New Orleans is slowly sinking. Although I guess that building the city on poles, like cities in the Netherlands are, might have prevented it. As I said, it has been awhile since I saw that news item.
The British did capture, after several previous abortive plans, Havana in 1762, then gave it back in the peace treaty.
An Anglo-Cuba is not completely implausible.
An Anglo-Cuba is not completely implausible.
I'm honestly surprised that the Portuguese Empire never had much of a presence north of the Guyanas.
The Treaty of Tordesillas forbade it. Obviously it could be violated like it was in Brazil and elsewhere but pushing into the jungle is different than settling an island.
I could see Portuguese Bermuda (I guess that counts as West Indies, right?) working out though. It's pretty remote and could be misplaced on a sea chart letting Portugal establish a claim or they could work it out with a treaty, maybe in recognition of some other Spanish claim. OTL both powers knew of and stopped at Bermuda but didn't settle.
Some other ideas:
The English originally wanted to capture Hispaniola in the 1655 expedition but this failed, as the Spanish expected the attack and improved their defenses. It only after this that the English turned to Jamaica as a backup plan. So an English Hispaniola (would its name be changed?) seems plausible with some kind of POD that prevents Spain from reinforcing Santo Domingo.
Alternatively, if the Bourbons do not gain the Spanish throne in the WSS, we likely see further French incursions into Spanish territory. France had been very interested in expanding at the expense of Spain up to that point. It was in the treaty of Ryswick of 1697, just before, that France officially gained Saint-Domingue.
And then if the Franco-Dutch alliance does not break down in the 1660s, we likely also see the Dutch continue to attack Spanish possessions. Fear of Louis XIV drove them IOTL to form a rapprochement with the Spanish but if he can keep them on his side, that will not happen.
The English originally wanted to capture Hispaniola in the 1655 expedition but this failed, as the Spanish expected the attack and improved their defenses. It only after this that the English turned to Jamaica as a backup plan. So an English Hispaniola (would its name be changed?) seems plausible with some kind of POD that prevents Spain from reinforcing Santo Domingo.
Alternatively, if the Bourbons do not gain the Spanish throne in the WSS, we likely see further French incursions into Spanish territory. France had been very interested in expanding at the expense of Spain up to that point. It was in the treaty of Ryswick of 1697, just before, that France officially gained Saint-Domingue.
And then if the Franco-Dutch alliance does not break down in the 1660s, we likely also see the Dutch continue to attack Spanish possessions. Fear of Louis XIV drove them IOTL to form a rapprochement with the Spanish but if he can keep them on his side, that will not happen.
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Osman Aga
Banned
A lot of things are possible if done early enough, for the big islands like Cuba and Hispaniola. The rest are pretty much easy to change from hands. Hell you can even have Moroccan/Algerian Pirates settling in small islands of the Lesser Antilles and use it as a base to raid Spanish/Portuguese/French shipping. Or you can have Russians in for example St Kitts and Nevis.