AH.com's TL-191

This is a discussed collaborative TL about a divergence from the perspective of an ATL. In this case, what if Lee's Special Order 191 was captured by the Union. A simple answer is OTL would occur, but again this is from the perspective of someone from Turtledove's TL-191 pondering on what would occur.

I'll play referee for now, but some sort of committee or something should oversee this so it doesn't become just one person's vision, and in case any participants becomes bored or busy and it just doesn't die.

So here we go:D!

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"We were whooped through incompetence, plain and simple. It all came down to the loss of Lee’s Special Order 191 - wrapped in a paper with cigars - some fool dropped what amounted to a “how to whoop us” right in Little Mac’s lap [1]. Those papers gave detailed accounts of the Army of Northern Virginia’s movements into Maryland. That Yankee sunuvabitch, McClellan, must have been beside himself with the leg up he got on us. It finally emboldened him to use his Army of the Potomac to smash us, wiping us out piece by piece [2]. Lee was captured, and that my friends, was the beginning of the end…at least that phase of the war, as you know.

The Yankees might have smashed our armies in the fields, occupied our lands, and freed a lower race [3] to befoul good Christian white women, but they’ll never crush our spirits. The northern history books might say the Southern Rebellion [4] has ended, but it never truly has. The Confederacy’s loyal sons, who their papers dismiss as simple bushwhackers, fight on. And we will fight on, until our nation is free, or the blood of every Southerner lies spilt on the earth.

So you can send your readers back in Germany my personal affections for your Kaiser, for speaking out to the world of the crimes perpetuated by the so-called United States. We are only united with them through tyranny. We admire him for standing up against the British and French who denounced our nation and even profited off our subjugation, and condemning the Yankees for allying with them and interfering with affairs it has no business in. [5]"


General J.E.B. Stuart,
Commander of the Western Confederate Army
Talking to German Reporters in
New Mexico Territory, USA
1881​









[1] In OTL, Special Order 191 was never lost. Though an old, unsubstantiated rumor/myth was the responsible lieutenant nearly did so. If this rumor was true, and recovered by the Union army, it might have prompted McClellan in finally coming out of his caution, given certain victory.

[2] Lee had divided the Army of Northern Virginia, moving separately into Maryland, which they would later regroup. In OTL Lee was able to surprise McClellan and force a battle on him along the Susquehanna River, leading to the Battle of Camp Hill and the defeat of the Army of the Potomac.

[3] It was said President Lincoln was considering freeing the slaves, to win over approval of Europe and gain more soldiers for the Union cause. He was timing this on a great victory, which in OTL never occurred of course. Given McClellan’s success, this proved to be the moment Lincoln was waiting for.

[4] Since the Confederate States of America was defeated in TTL, the name of “The War of Succession” never caught on, and was officially given the demeaning name of “The Southern Rebellion”

[5] The result of the War of Succession led to an alliance between Britain, France, and the CSA. In TTL, with the defeat of the Confederacy, these two European powers established closer ties with the United States instead – being the nation emerged as the sole power of the continent. Countering their rivals, the German Empire has given not-so-official support to the continuing insurgency against the Union occupation.
 
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IC: How ASB! The rumour was just a rumour nothing more!

OOC: Good! Continue it please!

Thanks, I'll write more, but I've only ever read the first book, so beyond that someone else will have to take center stage. (I have to add, it is quite bizarre studying a novel of AH for facts instead of our own history:p)

OOC: I see you used my idea about Germany, nice work.

Yeah I liked it. It also goes along with the opposite alliances set up by Turtledove. I'm also going to use the Confederate bushwacker-Native aliiance too. I figure Stuat fought with Geranimo once, he can certainly do it again:D.
 
IC: Interesting start, interesting concept too. I'm not sure whether or not German aid to the Confederates would have been effective - after all, after the War of Secession (sorry, Southern Rebellion) I'm sure the Yankees would have kept a tight leash on the southern states. That could go twofold - some groups and states might mellow out over time and accept abolition as IOTL, but other groups might radicalize (I'm not sure to what extent Germany would like to be associated with that). Anyway, with such tight control, I doubt a second war of independence is likely for the Confederates, but they could certainly give the Union some trouble.

Anyway, keep it up. I'm interested to learn the differences in Mexico (might the US take over Sonora and Chihuahua? Perhaps as compensation for accepting Maximilian's regime?), Cuba (probably still Spanish, the US would have its hands too full with the south to go even further south) and of course, Europe. The American example of successful national reunification might give the Germans the idea that they should be fully united as well, and thus, an independent Habsburg Austria cannot be tolerated... and if Austria fell somehow, it could very well have consequences on all of Europe. A different solution to the Spanish succession problem in 1870, with Spain getting a German monarch, woudl also be interesting. Hmm...

OOC: Like my TTL self said, nice concept. I'm interested in reading more, either from the OP or from someone else. As for the books, it shouldn't be too hard to find a summary on Wikipedia.
 

Solroc

Banned
IC: interesting setup thus far. So how will the Union try to re-intergrate thse Rebs? I imagine they'll have to buckle down and prepare for an insurgeancy. Also, now that abolition in the former CSA was established (btw, you didn't mention what Lincoln did to free the Rebs' slaves), what about Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri? And what of West Virginia, did it reintegrate with Virginia or is it going to stay separated as per victor's justice?

OOC: So is TL-191's version of TTL our timeline or will there be more divergences?
 
OOC: Is the quote in the part 1 a real OTL quote (unlikely) or just something "made up by the TL writer" that condenses a lot of things together?
Also, for that matter, is the described TL an exact copy of OTL or are you planning to do it in some different way?

IC: Other than the somewhat ASBish divergence, a very good start. I'll be following this (hopefully).
 
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