AH Challenge: Frenchwank

DrakeRlugia · Jul 4, 2009

Here is a map of territories owned by the Kingdom of France in the year 1800. With a PoD no earlier than 1450, make this map a reality. Note that this map only shows France and it's possessions in 1800. The rest of the map in way reflects the state of the rest of the world in this year.

rcduggan · Jul 4, 2009

Fairly simple - have France win the Italian Wars and thus gain Naples and Milan. Colonization for some reason is AIOTL, France wins the alt-Seven Years' War, and eventually decolonization happens in Africa, leaving France with a few remnants.

Jimbrock · Jul 4, 2009

rcduggan said:
Fairly simple - have France win the Italian Wars and thus gain Naples and Milan. Colonization for some reason is AIOTL, France wins the alt-Seven Years' War, and eventually decolonization happens in Africa, leaving France with a few remnants.

Decolonization in Africa? 1800?

rcduggan · Jul 4, 2009

Jimbrock said:
Decolonization in Africa? 1800?

I must have missed that in the OP. In that case, the bits controlled by France are the newly-settled French outposts.

DuQuense · Jul 4, 2009

should have gone to the map threads and gotten a 1800's world map.

France won the war with Spain and keep Naples.

No 1795 sale of Hispaniola to France, Assume that France bought Florida instead.

The Huguenots won the religious wars and exiled all the Catholics to America.

Spanish Armada won, so France had no Rival for the East coast.

US got Canada in the ARW, but the quasi war of 1798 went hot and France conquered the US.

Chengar Qordath · Jul 4, 2009

France without the Rhineland territories they so coveted isn't much of a Frenchwank.

France wins the Italian Wars, and is a bit more succesful colonially.

vultan · Jul 4, 2009

You know, this thread reminds me:
How come the French always get screwed at everyone else's expense on this board?

Typo · Jul 5, 2009

vultan said:
You know, this thread reminds me:
How come the French always get screwed at everyone else's expense on this board?

Mostly because people wants to wank Germany, and to a lesser extent, the British Empire

Wolfhound · Jul 5, 2009

Yeah what's with that? Why does everyone want to wank Germany all the time?

And why is Ireland partitioned in the map?

Chengar Qordath · Jul 5, 2009

Wolfhound said:
Yeah what's with that? Why does everyone want to wank Germany all the time?

And why is Ireland partitioned in the map?

Because the bulk of their history is the opposite of a wank? Everyone likes the underdog (except when they're Nazis).

As for the map, the OP mentioned that he's just superimposing his 1800 France on a modern map.

Wolfhound · Jul 5, 2009

But everyone wanks them in the period 1800-1950, when they arn't the underdog, but the inevitable rising power.

Typo · Jul 5, 2009

Wolfhound said:
Yeah what's with that? Why does everyone want to wank Germany all the time?

I've actually wondered at that

Probably a mixture of their rise from a bunch of small states into the European superpower, and their performance in WWII looking impressive.

rcduggan · Jul 5, 2009

Typo said:
Mostly because people wants to wank Germany, and to a lesser extent, the British Empire

I agree... it seems like I am one of the few on this boards who would prefer that France predominates over Germany or Britain. It really does seem weird though, how many people dislike France and would prefer that it be balkanized.

But to compensate, I'm planning a TL where France gets a better deal at the Treaty of Paris in 1783, subverts the Revolution, and becomes one of the leading industrial powers in the world. Among other things.

Dathi THorfinnsson · Jul 6, 2009

And what the heck is with the North American borders - in particular, what's with the 49th parallel line marking a chunk of *France's territory?

The wiggly line near (but not at) the OTL Manitoba border is ... odd, but at least far better than the 'use modern boundaries', but then you take the border west on the 49th parallel. Wierd.

OH, and France owns some, but not all, of the Louisiana territory?

Atreus · Jul 6, 2009

Wolfhound said:
And why is Ireland partitioned in the map?

Maybe because for the vast majority of its history Ireland has been balkanized and divided by petty kingdoms, and the main unifying force on the island was british rule, which brought the entirety of Ireland under one banner.

Julius Vogel · Jul 6, 2009

I remember reading a newspaper story several months ago that at a British WW2 re-creation meetup/weekend the amount of people dressing up as Germans/Nazis outnumbered the people dressing up as Allied/British soldiers by a factor of about four. I found this mildly disgusting to be honest.

Typo · Jul 6, 2009

The truth is German propaganda effected people's perception of the German military in WWII a long long way, even post-war. While the nazi party was effectively demonized by the allies, the military more or less retained the image of an elite, invincible force fighting against many time its numbers in the war.

Interestingly, Blitzkreig itself can be seen as propaganda warfare, using tactics that cause confusion and the belief of defeat on its enemy's part rather than focusing on physically destroying enemy forces.

T3h_shammy · Jul 6, 2009

DuQuense said:
should have gone to the map threads and gotten a 1800's world map.

France won the war with Spain and keep Naples.

No 1795 sale of Hispaniola to France, Assume that France bought Florida instead.

The Huguenots won the religious wars and exiled all the Catholics to America.

Spanish Armada won, so France had no Rival for the East coast.

US got Canada in the ARW, but the quasi war of 1798 went hot and France conquered the US.

The U.S can defeat the U.K but loses to France, 15 years later. ASB please?

fhaessig · Jul 7, 2009

T3h_shammy said:
The U.S can defeat the U.K but loses to France, 15 years later. ASB please?

Not at all. Completely realistic, in fact.

US OTL victory in american independence war was only thanks to french military ( and financial ) help ( De Grasse and Rochambeau, not La Fayette ). Uk didn't lose to american rebels alone but to an alliance which included France, Spain and the Netherlands. And the french army in 1798 was huge ( levee en masse ) and experimented ( they had just spend the past half dozen year in war against the rest of europe ). The french navy, while bad, was enough to deal with the US one. The only thing which could prevent a big french expedition would be the RN.

If Uk doesn't help US in 1798, US is toast.

This suppose that Uk is at peace with revolutionary France and doesn't give a damn about what happens in North America ( or is disctracted by something else ), but the change is not with USA.

T3h_shammy · Jul 7, 2009

Your right. I agree that France was just fighting Europe. But even the highly disciplined forces of Europe struggled in America because of the nature of warfare there. The highly fluid American forces were able to resist. I can't see most of Europe sitting out of a conflict. Once England enters the fray, French dominance of the Seas over a numerically weak American fleet would be finished and land troops would be cut off and suffer a Yorktown Redux.

Then again if its U.S versus France 1v1. I can't see France pulling off any massive victories more then the UK did IOTL