After the High Middle Ages (~1500s), could a Royal Bastard plot/fight his way to become a Legitimate King?

[VVD0D95]

That is of course another option. The main benefit is that the Dutch claimant would of course bring the Dutch army which otl helped convince james to flee and which was instrumental in his defeat in Ireland. An English bastard, even a soldier, would find it harder to gain enough military support to avoid a tremendously protracted civil war.

Indeed though wherher the English would want a Dutch bastard is another thing. They barely tolerated William otl.

 

[FairlyUninformedGraduate]

Indeed though wherher the English would want a Dutch bastard is another thing. They barely tolerated William otl.

Absolutely. I imagine resistance to TTL Chales The Bastard is much higher than to OTL William 3rd. We probably see at least one battle in England before james flees, a stronger jacobite faction within England as well as Scotland, and more reliance on the army to remain king. His descendants would struggle to keep the throne and a jacobite restoration could be on the cards.

 

[VVD0D95]

Absolutely. I imagine resistance to TTL Chales The Bastard is much higher than to OTL William 3rd. We probably see at least one battle in England before james flees, a stronger jacobite faction within England as well as Scotland, and more reliance on the army to remain king. His descendants would struggle to keep the throne and a jacobite restoration could be on the cards.

Indeed abd tbis time James will have support from Anne and Mary

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Absolutely. I imagine resistance to TTL Chales The Bastard is much higher than to OTL William 3rd.

Why?

 

[GameBawesome]

Wasn't a lot of Iberian Houses, like the House of Trastámara and House of Aviz both illegitimate branches of their respective branches of the House of Burgundy, who got into power during a civil war?

 

[Karolus Rex]

João IV de Portugal, the first King of the Braganzas was exactly this. Or worse, considering he was basically a nobody before the Portuguese Rebellion.

He was far from a nobody, the Bragança were some of the major landowners in Portugal since Afonso of Bragança, the first duke, married Beatriz Pereira de Alvim, heiress of the Count of Barcelos and Constable of Portugal Nuno Álvares Pereira that was the richest and most powerful man in the Kingdom after King João I, and they had acquired even more lands and titles since, to describe João of Bragança as a nobody when he was the richest, most powerful duke in Portugal at the time is quite a misunderstanding.

 

[FairlyUninformedGraduate]

I mean, I'd read a TL on this premise! It would probably mean much smaller colonial ventures from England, and may butterfly the act of union. Maybe England has a few north American colonies that are either hotbed of jacobite sentiment or as they are smaller stay loyal. Perhaps England and Holland swap places, with the dutch colonizing India and Australia and England having a smaller overseas empire, perhaps New York to Canada.

 

[FairlyUninformedGraduate]

Why?

Hes a bastard, whose claim is no stronger than several other bastards who are english.

 

[Mikestone8]

James duke of Monmouth if his uncle conveniently kicks during the rebellion?

Nar. James II didn't win he Battle of Sedgemoor. His army did, and it would be the same ary with or without hm.

 

[VVD0D95]

Nar. James II didn't win he Battle of Sedgemoor. His army did, and it would be the same ary with or without hm.

But the army was fighting for James, if James is dead, are they going to fight for Mary who is abroad? Or are they going to consider going to James Monmouth who was popular.

 

[Mikestone8]

But the army was fighting for James, if James is dead, are they going to fight for Mary who is abroad? Or are they going to consider going to James Monmouth who was popular.

They would fight for whomever their commanders said and with James dead there would be no reason to consider anyone except the legitimate heir(ess).

 

[AddyLane]

Why would they choose a Dutch bastard when they can choose one of Charles ii bastards? Such as the duke of grafton who had friends in th military and was also commander of one of the guard regiments

No kidding. He had plenty to choose from.

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

With bastard, I meant a man born outside the marriage, whom a parent of him being royalty.

The caveat? The hypothetical bastard in queston must be a Male one and it's becoming a King. Female Royal Bastard becoming a Queen Consort did not count, even if she might later coup her husband and or Children to rule as Queen in her own rights.

Let's say that the question is about a Royal Bastard General, whom pulled a military coup to become King and took over still count if his reign ended up being deemed legitimate by the lther Kingdoms. It's kind of specific.

Well, we all knew Henry mucking things up, but Elizabeth here won the Throne on account of being a female, always saying she would marry with the right guy... But masterfully used the promise to marry to keep ahold until everyone just accepted her.

Well, That's why I specified Male Bastards...

Does Henry Fitzroy, Duke if Richmond and Somerset count?

Henry VIII's bastard?

 

[Henderson]

Why?

I don't understand how he'd even have support in the first place. If he's a bastard brother to William III by his father, then he has no blood claim to the throne, since William's claim to the English throne came from his mother, sister to James II & Charles II. There would be literally no reason to see him as a legitimate claimant to the throne of England at all (and if William III is dead then this Charles would probably be more focused on fighting the Prussians for his Dutch inheritance than for England).

 

[Tosa Inu]

Does Henry Fitzroy, Duke if Richmond and Somerset count?

Henry VIII's bastard?

Yes of course