Abolitionism and the CSA

[anon_user]

What happens to the abolitionist movement if the slaveholding CSA somehow does gain independence? Are there analogs to the Fenian raids on Canada, for instance?

 

[Philadelphus]

What happens to the abolitionist movement if the slaveholding CSA somehow does gain independence? Are there analogs to the Fenian raids on Canada, for instance?

One could argue that the John Brown raid was such an analog.
Although a lot of...can we still call citizens of a shrunken U.S. "Americans"?...might feel slavery was no longer their problem. A good deal of anti-slavery feeling, OTL, was based in the sentiment that it was a stain on the national conscience, inconsistent with our principles... Get it out of the U.S. and that goes away. It would be the hard-core abolitionists that would still be concerned about slavery in a neighboring country.

 

[Spengler]

I wonder though if the hard core abolitionists did do repeats of john brown would the federal government do anything?

 

[DuQuense]

I see the Abolitionist Societies, Turning into fund Raising groups for a Back to Africa Movement.
Probably start by trying to buy the Slaves in Delaware and Maryland, to prevent them from being sold south as the 13th amendment nears passage.

 

[David S Poepoe]

Its entirely likely that local abolitionist groups will develop within the various states of the Confederacy. They will have a hard time of it at first but may grow to become more mainstream by the close of the century.

 

[Spengler]

so no one else agree with me and anon users thoughts on union abolitionists trying to start slave rebellions(radical ones obviously).

 

[Philadelphus]

so no one else agree with me and anon users thoughts on union abolitionists trying to start slave rebellions(radical ones obviously).

It wasn't clear to me that's what you were asking - your question seemed to assume that would happen and ask whether the federal government would do anything. I think that sort of raid's certainly plausible. But as John Brown discovered, it wasn't easy.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

so no one else agree with me and anon users thoughts on union abolitionists trying to start slave rebellions(radical ones obviously).

I would say a repeat of John Brown is certainly a possibility; and Fenian-esque militant abolitionists operating out of Union territory are quite plausible. I doubt the Union would do much to stop them; even the Union's official policy is to prevent such raids and arrest those responsible, I expect a lot of local Northerners would be more than happy to look the other way. After all, even a lot of people who don't favor abolition will be in support of causing trouble for the Confederacy in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War.

 

[David S Poepoe]

so no one else agree with me and anon users thoughts on union abolitionists trying to start slave rebellions(radical ones obviously).

I think it unlikely. It would become the domestic problem of another nation, one which many people in the North would have been happy to have separated from in the 1850s. The Federal Government would most likely crackdown, or at least keep a close eye on, any group likely to launch a cross border raid. Steps will be taken to keep the peace.

 

[Anaxagoras]

so no one else agree with me and anon users thoughts on union abolitionists trying to start slave rebellions(radical ones obviously).

Somehow, I don't see them as trying to start slave revolts. However, I can see them as supporting them when (not if) they start on their own.

 

[anon_user]

Incidentally, it's possible the Fenians might've made a go at Canada even if the South wins.

It's possible that a condition of the peace treaty would be that no slaves could be sold south. Failing that, I definitely agree that the abolitionist societies would concentrate first on manumitting the slaves in the border states before they could be sold south - especially given that Franklin Douglas was originally a Marylander's slave.

Assuming that the states that seceded are the ones in the CSA, it's likely that unionists in those states (particularly those close enough to the border) would flee to the USA, and could be the core of some raids.

I wonder how things would shake out politically. Probably depends on how the war ends - if it's ended by peace Democrats, then while more of the population wouldn't want war, it also would clearly be the peace Dems to blame. If it's ended by European intervention, that's another matter.

 

[htgriffin]

Expect the Underground Railroad to remain a going concern almost indefinitely.

HTG

 

[Shawn Endresen]

In the short term, the Yanks are going to sulk and pretend the Confederacy doesn't exist. The radical Abolitionists have, after all, just been proven definitively wrong. I wouldn't expect anti-slavery raids to become a major event until the 1880s or 90s, when a generation comes to adulthood with little experience of either war or life in union with the south.

Such raids, if interpreted as an act of war, are violations of the Neutrality Act and thus Federal crimes. However, if the CSA has maintained slavery at that point, sophists are going to argue that removing slaves is theft, not kidnapping, and theft is not an act of war, merely a crime. You couldn't even extradite for it. If the Administration likes tweaking the Confederates it can certainly grab that interpretation and run with it.

The biggest proponents of such raids are not going to be white abolitionists but escaped slaves and their children. As such, the government is likely to ignore them or shrug - just "those people" being like they always are, nothing to get concerned over.

I wonder if the Union maintains a distinct immigration policy for Confederate whites and Confederate blacks? Which ones would be preferred for the growing factory labor market?

 

[President Sam Houston]

Well the OP doesn't say how the CSA gains it independence, whether there is a war, or whether the election of Lincoln was the catalyst for secession.

As such, what if the Republican party is more disorganized and factured in 1859-1860 and that the Democrats don't split in 1860, such that the Democratic candidate, say its Douglas wins the presidential election over the Republican, Lincoln or someone else. Nevertheless, the Republicans have made significant gains and hold majorities in both houses of Congress.

The Southern States see the writing on the wall and petition/sue for secession. President Douglas puts up a bit of resistance, but in the end, pretty much lets the 7 states of the deep south go and form CSA. Basically agreements are made to pay the federal government for federal property, etc.

Needless to say the more radical Republicans go nuts, and many more moderate republicans become more radical. With the senators and representatives of the CSA states now gone, Douglas has absolutely zero support in Congress. He is soon impeached and removed from office.

However, by this point, war with the CSA can't get any traction, however, the radical abolitionists and others opposed to slavery feel betrayed by the federal government and as such their numbers grow, they become better organized and funded, and with the federal government turning a blind eye, begin campaigns to incite uprisings and rebellions, arm slaves, etc., in the CSA. Getting CSA slaves to freedom becomes much easier as they only need to get to Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc., and not Canada. The slave states that remained in the Union will have become marginalized with very little power to try to keep fugitive slave laws in force. But will those states try to go and join their brothers in the CSA?