A Two Nation NATO

[Thehappyvampire]

What if some event in say somewhere during the year 2009, the European Union (EU) is now composed of all the nation states of Europe, including the micro-states, except for Belarus and Russia and transformed into a federation where the nations become the states of the EU. Canada and the United States of America formed into one nation called the North American Republic in the same year. The European Union and the North American Republic agreed to be allies under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. How will this affect the politics and economy of the world?

Type of Government
European Union: Federal Parliamentary Constitutional Republic
North American Republic: Federal Presidential Constitutional Republic

 

[wietze]

you forget another option, where Canada actually opts to join Europe instead of the us, for whatever reason.

 

[Thehappyvampire]

you forget another option, where Canada actually opts to join Europe instead of the us, for whatever reason.

I thought about it, but I just went 'meh' and tossed it in because it looks better to me.

 

[wietze]

unified north-america doesn't seem plausible to me though.

seems to me canada has more in common with europe by the day.

the trouble is, the way they became unified will influence how nato will evolve.

and the ukraine part of the EU, that will influence russias position considerable.

 

[Zek Sora]

Why? What possible reason is there for this to happen? You need to give us a POD...

 

[Kaiser K]

Wouldn't NATO be kind of pointless if there was only 4 nations in the world?

 

[Thehappyvampire]

Wouldn't NATO be kind of pointless if there was only 4 nations in the world?

How so? What do you mean only four nations in the world?

 

[Kaiser K]

How so? What do you mean only four nations in the world?

The OP said that the federalized European Union was composed of all nations states except Belarus and Russia, through I may have just taken it too literal.

 

[Thehappyvampire]

The OP said that the federalized European Union was composed of all nations states except Belarus and Russia, through I may have just taken it too literal.

Ah, sorry about that. Fixed.

 

[Thehappyvampire]

Why? What possible reason is there for this to happen? You need to give us a POD...

A large growing influence and military from the People's Republic of China and the Russian Federation. Certain actions from these two nations have caused quite a bit of Western politicians to find a way to counter.

 

[CthulhuFhtagn]

unified north-america doesn't seem plausible to me though.

I agree. The Canadians don't want it, we don't want it. We've already got NORAD, NATO, NAFTA, the same pop culture (sports, musicians, movies), similar politics, and the same language. Why go to the trouble of unification?

A large growing influence and military from the People's Republic of China and the Russian Federation. Certain actions from these two nations have caused quite a bit of Western politicians to find a way to counter.

Unifying "counters" this...how, exactly?

 

[Thehappyvampire]

I agree. The Canadians don't want it, we don't want it. We've already got a mutual defense agreement, a free trade agreement, and a shared basketball league. That's enough unification for me.



And unifying "counters" this...how, exactly?

Shrugs, perhaps to discourage them from taking more daring actions.

You know, I would like to read some thoughts and answers on this because that is the reason I put this here. This has been on my mind so I am kinda curious on the thoughts of other people on this.

 

[CthulhuFhtagn]

Shrugs, perhaps to discourage them from taking more daring action.

That's not really enough to convince hundreds of millions of people to drop the idea of national sovereignty. The Russians occupied Eastern Europe for almost 50 years, and even that wasn't enough to convince Western Europe to unify into a single state. And why would the Europeans feel threatened by China claiming Japanese and Filipino territory?

You know, I would like to hear some thoughts on this because that is the reason I put this here. This has been on my mind so I am kinda curious on the thoughts of other people on this.

My thought is that this is unrealistic. There's no clear advantage to unifying (we already have NATO), and the vast majority of the people in the EU, the US, and Canada don't want it.

 

[Thehappyvampire]

That's not really enough to convince hundreds of millions of people to drop the idea of national sovereignty. The Russians occupied Eastern Europe for almost 50 years, and even that wasn't enough to convince Western Europe to unify into a single state. And why would the Europeans feel threatened by China claiming Japanese and Filipino territory?

My thought is that this is unrealistic. There's no clear advantage to unifying (we already have NATO), and the vast majority of the people in the EU, the US, and Canada don't want it.

sigh, sorry I asked then.

 

[oreocruncher]

What if some event in say somewhere during the year 2009, the European Union (EU) is now composed of all the nation states of Europe, including the micro-states, except for Belarus and Russia and transformed into a federation where the nations become the states of the EU. Canada and the United States of America formed into one nation called the North American Republic in the same year. The European Union and the North American Republic agreed to be allies under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. How will this affect the politics and economy of the world?

Type of Government
European Union: Federal Parliamentary Constitutional Republic
North American Republic: Federal Presidential Constitutional Republic

Federalization is really slim possibility...
And the EU has a "democracies-only policy" since as far back as the 1962, though it wasn't formally codified as the "Copenhagen Criteria" until 1993 (which is why Spain was rejected EEC membership when they tried to apply back in 1962). Thus, the Vatican won't be allowed in...

And North American Republic isn't plausible...the Canadians' major ID is "not being American". Even the idea of free trade was controversial enough (Pre-WWI, Laurier campaigned in 1911 on Free Trade with the US...he lost...and NAFTA is already extremely controversial in both countries). Canada is too small compared to the US for this to work...

What you can possibly have is kinda a EEC/EU, an EFTA, a Nordic Union, and possibly some ex-communist bloc (the latter two may overlap with EFTA).

 

[British Republic]

What would be the point of the North American Republic? If Canada is going to join up with Washington they might as well just join the USA in return for some "Progressive" Constitutional Amendments.

unified north-america doesn't seem plausible to me though.

seems to me canada has more in common with europe by the day.

the trouble is, the way they became unified will influence how nato will evolve.

and the ukraine part of the EU, that will influence russias position considerable.

That is only because America is run by neo-liberal/social conservative idiots. Canada joing will push the balance in favour of the Progressives. Hence other benefit is that Canada will be less pressured to move towards free-market capitalism when its biggest champion moved away from it.

Likewise it depends on how much a Federal Europe spends on defence compared to the Americans (Washingtion in OTL dominates NATO spending).

 

[British Republic]

And North American Republic isn't plausible...the Canadians' major ID is "not being American". Even the idea of free trade was controversial enough (Pre-WWI, Laurier campaigned in 1911 on Free Trade with the US...he lost...and NAFTA is already extremely controversial in both countries). Canada is too small compared to the US for this to work...

What would Canada lose (and don't say becoming more neo-liberal, Canada joining will push America way from that) if they joined? I mean it is not like they are able to stand up to America all the time because as I keep saying geo-politics is like Scottish Football and the Old Firm. There are only two major powers here and Canada is not one of them. So why not have a say rather then following a lot of what Washington says.

 

[The Cosmonaut Cat]

Shrugs, perhaps to discourage them from taking more daring actions.

You know, I would like to read some thoughts and answers on this because that is the reason I put this here. This has been on my mind so I am kinda curious on the thoughts of other people on this.

We have an ASB forum for these types of inquiries you know.

 

[oreocruncher]

What would Canada lose (and don't say becoming more neo-liberal, Canada joining will push America way from that) if they joined? I mean it is not like they are able to stand up to America all the time because as I keep saying geo-politics is like Scottish Football and the Old Firm. There are only two major powers here and Canada is not one of them. So why not have a say rather then following a lot of what Washington says.

We'd lose our healthcare and our Cuba policy, for starters...

 

[TheBrunswickian]

As much as Europe is heading towards political federation, it will never happen because if you add all the Balkan states to the EU, you are just going to end up with the issue that Yugoslavia was in during the late 80s. The Croatians will never accept the idea of the Serbians having more power than them in the European Parliament.

And the Canadians would NEVER opt for Union with the US. The Quebec independence movement would explode again!

Long story short, you can never have a NATO composed of a unified North America and a unified Europe. The internal struggles are too great to deal with.