A much larger Rome that survives until the present day.

[ericams2786]

Ok, here's a few more years added to the final TL, plus the first two I already posted.

709 AUC

Domestic (D): As Julius Caesar leaves for a Senate meeting in Rome on the Ides of March, Marc Antony and Marcus Junius Brutus intercept him (after Marcus Tillius Cimber tells Antony of the plot on Caesar’s life) and divulge the details of a planned assassination by a group of senators called the Liberatores. Antony and Brutus’ timely intervention leads to Caesar’s famous speech, the Adfatus in the Forum Julium and the prompt (yet lenient) prosecution of most of the conspirators over the remainder of the year, with the notable exception of Quintus Ligarius. Caesar reorganizes the Republic during the Transistus Magnus (Great Transition), creating the Senatus Novus (New Senate) and calling for a new code of law or all encompassing Corpus Juris Civilis to replace the Twelve Tablets, the Lex Magnus (Great Law). Octavian is appointed the leader of the New Senate and the body votes to bestow the title Imperator Perpetuus on Julius Caesar. In addition, Caesar appoints Octavian Imperator Interrex. Caesar gets his succession law, the lex Successionis, passed in the Senate, officially naming his son by Cleopatra, Ptolemy XV Caesar as his heir. Caesar divorces his wife Calpurnia and, after changing the marriage laws with his leges Juliae, weds Cleopatra. He compensates Calpurnia (mostly for her warning of his attempted assassination) by granting her a huge piece of land and an estate in central Italy, along with life-long payments to support her financially. The first portion of the Lex Magnus (taking into account many of the ideas of Caesar’s slave Eupiphenese), the lex Senatus is passed in November.

Military (M): Also in November, Caesar, Cleopatra, and Marc Antony leave Rome for Pella in Macedonia to prepare for Caesar’s future invasion of Thrace, Moesia, Dalmatia, and Pannonia. While in Pella, Caesar hears news of Ptolemy XIV’s treachery in Egypt and he sets sail for the ancient kingdom in December. The Battle of Pelusium Harbor ends in a Roman victory late in December.

Literature, Art, and Science (LAS): Julius Caesar begins work on his Commentarii de Bello Aegyptico. Cicero, showing his appreciation for the general’s pardon after the Caesarian Civil War and for his careful restructuring of Roman law, gives a speech in the New Senate praising Caesar’s accomplishments in September and begins drafting a letter to Caesar, most often referred to as the Efflagitatus Recursus Respublicus (An Urgent Plea for the Return of the Republic) in a desperate attempt to get the dictator to restore at least some semblance of the Old Republic under his rule.

Foreign (F): Antipater the Idumaean, father of Herod the Great of Judaea dies. Comosicus succeeds Burebista as the king of Dacia.

710 AUC

Domestic: Julius Caesar is proclaimed Pharaoh in Egypt and he appoints Pharxes Kahotep as Egypt’s first Praetor. Caesar sends word to Octavian via letter to officially free his slave, Eupiphenese from his servitude, conferring upon him complete citizenship for informing him before anyone else of the plot against his life (ignoring the fact that Calpurnia was actually the first one to do so). Octavian commissions the completion of the Forum Julium, including the new house of the Senate on the west end of the forum, the Curius Senatus. The Senate officially reorganizes itself completely becoming the Imperial Senate in February, with Cicero becoming the first Princeps Senatus of the new Senate and Publius Servilius Vatia Isauricus being elected life-long President of the Senate. Octavian himself remains a senator, heading the civil law committee. Octavian appoints the first senators in the new Senate (and makes sure they agree with Caesar’s policies) rather than being elected by the citizens of the provinces (as they will after the establishment of the lex Provincii). The Senate begins work on the lex Imperius. The last trial of the conspirators is held in June, with the lenient sentencing of both Brutus and Cassius. Lugdunum is founded in Gaul. The great Roman poet Ovid is born. Caesar begins construction of Castrum Thracia, a future imperial prison.

Military: Both the Battle of Memphis and the Battle of Alexandria are won by Julius Caesar, thus completing his conquest of Egypt. Caesar returns to Pella and begins his invasion of Thrace in May, culminating in the Battle of Vordium (R), the Battle of Dordivium (R), and the Battle of the Plotin Plains (R). Other minor battles occur, but ultimately Antony and Caesar conquer Thrace and Moesia throughout the year.

Other battles: Battle of Mount Geru (I), Battle of Plotinopolis (R)

Literature, Art, and Science: Caesar drafts his response to Cicero’s letter, most commonly referred to by scholars as the Arcula (the Argument or Response), praising the senator for his love and concern for the Republic and making a sound logical argument for the changes he and his followers are bringing to the Roman world by showing how the old order was chaotic and flawed.

Foriegn: In India, Nagasena creates the Emerald Buddha, an important factor in the spread of Buddhism throughout the Roman Empire centuries later. Princess Iotapa of Media is born. The Catuvellauni in Britain break their tribute treaty with Rome and expel the Roman diplomat Popius from their capital.

711 AUC

Domestic: Octavian manages to pass a land redistribution bill in the Senate called II lex Agraria, which sets an absolute cap on the area of land that a single citizen could own, twenty iugeri (80 acres). Cicero and Octavian (in conjunction with the newly freed Eupiphenes) begin working on the second part of the lex Magnus, the lex Imperius, which deals primarily with the position of the Emperor and the functioning of the imperial government. Caesar appoints Lucius Cornelius Balbus Praetor of Thrace. Cleopatra begins reading Caesar’s commentaries to the Senate and to large crowds of people in Rome. Her reading of the commentaries and her speeches of Caesar’s greatness not only increase Caesar’s popularity, but also her own. The Roman people begin seeing Cleopatra as an adopted Roman rather than a foreign queen as in years past. Pollio establishes the Roman fort, Londinium in Britain.

Military: In March, Gaius Pollio lands in Britain and begins his campaign to conquer the island. The battles of Durovernum (R), the River Tamesis (R), Verulamium (R), Sorbindunum (R), and Segontium (R) officially mark Pollio’s conquest of southern Britain. Late in the year Pollio invades Caledonia, loosing the Battle of Luguvallium, but winning at Brocavum in the process. Caesar continues his conquest of Moesia, Dalmatia, and Pannonia throughout the entire year and meets Duritista, the Dacian diplomat for the first time. A small revolt, lead by a devoted follower of the late Ptolemy XIV at Memphis in Egypt is defeated by Pharxes in April.

Literature, Art, and Science: Caesar completes his Commentarii de Bello Thracico in which he greatly exaggerates the Roman victory at Vordium. He does this largely to increase his popularity and support among the Roman people just as he did years ago during his wars in Gaul.

Foreign: Queen Anula of Ceylonia dies.

712 AUC

Domestic: Octavian introduces a bill into the Senate called the lex Epistulus Equinus, which establishes a mail system throughout the Empire starting at Rome and radiating along Rome’s roads to the rest of the empire. The mail system consists of stations approximately 100 miles apart along the roads and one mail runner and horse per station to carry letters and messages from one part of the empire to the next; this is primarily done so that Octavian can communicate better with Caesar. The Senate also begins working on the appendix to the Lex Magnus, the Codex Juris Civilis, a document that would officially replace the common law of the Twelve Tablets upon its completion in 716 AUC. The lex Imperius is passed by the Senate. Eupiphenes begins tutoring Caesarion and teaching him how to effectively run the Republic. Lucius Antonius (Marc Antony’s brother) becomes the Praetor of Britannia and Caledonia (though later the island would be split into two provinces). Pollio establishes Campus Caledonia in Caledonia. Arsinoe IV, sister of Cleopatra, renounces all claims to the Egyptian throne from her sanctuary in Ephesus and moves to Rome, becoming an extremely influential and rich woman in the process. Her success is so profound that the birth of her son Decimus Auletius Calidus several years later, is considered the beginning of a new gens in Roman society (the first of many with the expansion of the Republic under Caesar), the Auleti (named after Arsinoe’s father, Ptolemy XII Auletes)

Military: Duritista meets with Julius Caesar for the second time in June after the massive Battle of Carnuntum (R) in which the Pannonian tribal alliance leader, Paeleus of Sirmium is killed, effectively ending major resistance to Julius Caesar’s conquest of Pannonia and Moesia. Caesar and Antony continue to campaign along the Ister and in eastern Moesia and continue to build roads throughout the conquered territories while campaigning. Pollio continues his conquest of Britannia and Caledonia, finally conquering the island after the infamous Battle of Vuvidenum (R) before returning to Gaul upon order of Julius Caesar to raise an army for a future campaign in Germania.

Literature, Art, and Science: Roman sculptor Gnaeus Minius Bibaculus begins a grand statue of Julius Caesar, a statue that to this day stands in the center of Forum Julium.

713 AUC

Domestic: Octavian commissions the first mail station in Rome in January, quickly followed by stations along the Via Appia throughout the remainder of the year. The Senate begins its monumental work on the restructuring of the provinces, the lex Provincii. The Roman Senate votes Herod as the “King of Judea” and promises support in ousting the Parthians from Judea.

Military: The Parthian king, Orodes II , upon seeing a distracted Rome in Dacia, invades Judea and helps Antigonus the Hasmonean exile the Roman-supported ruler of Judea, Hyrcanus II, to Babylon. The Parthians capture Jerusalem after a tremendous battle with Hyrcanus’ forces and Herod flees to Rome where he pleads with the Senate to overthrow Antigonus. Caesar and Antony begin the invasion of Dacia by crossing the River Ister. Pollio returns to Gaul.

Battles:
First Battle of the Ister (R)
Battle of Contra Margum (E)
Battle of Mount Blanae (E)
Second Battle of the Ister (R)
Battle of Drobeta (R)
Battle of Burridava (R)
Battle of Mount Janae (R)
Battle of Cerci (R)
Battle of Stenae (R)
Battle of Ghormium (I)
Battle of Borcu (I)
Second Battle of Borcu (E)
Battle of Sarmizegethusa (R)
First Battle of Blandiana (R)
Battle of Zermizurga (E)
Second Battle of Blandiana (R)
Battle of Norvodava (R)
Battle of Tibiscus (R)
Battle of Jerusalem (E)

Foreign: The Ji Jiu Pian dictionary is published in China.

 

[Pendragon]

Very awesome. I love the new way of organization and I love how things have developed. I honestly think using the new system that you implemented would allow for better organization and the providing of easily accessible info for the usein storytelling.

If your interested in the topic, I was wondering if you write up exactly how the Roman Empire is governed. What its organization and bureaucratic structure is. This things always interest me.

 

[ericams2786]

Actually I will be getting to that in the story part (the details at least) after I finish the section on the war in Germania. I will go into the domestic and political details of the inter-war period (between Germanian and Parthian wars) and discuss the bureaucratic structure of the Imperial and provincial governments.

 

[General Zod]

I was wondering if anyone would be cognizant and willing to comment on the analogies between TTL and the one developed in Sophia Mc Dougall's Romanitas cycle. I have not yet the books yet, but judging from the TL and map available on the net, although the PoD is different, the analogies are stricking.

I wonder whether the OP would see Romanitas 21st century outcome see map here as a reasonable outcome as I would (with all due respect for the author's preferences and sympathies, I do regard the survival of powerful Native American states in this kind of TL as quite ASB).

 

[ericams2786]

General Zod,

I have actually never read Rominatas or seen the map for the book. When I first began this TL back about 3 years ago or so, I just made a map and asked if anyone thought it was a plausible expansion of Rome. I realize the obvious similarities, however I think certain cliches just simply exist in a TL in which Rome exists to the present. I believe that it would be possible for some of the Native American tribes to exist as independent powers, especially if the situation is worked right. For instance, in my TL I plan on having Roman expansion in North America be relatively slow and I plan on having the natives be somewhat stronger vis-a-vie Rome (because the tech level of Rome will be lower than European colonists in OTL). Because of slow and constant cultural exchange between North American natives and the Roman colonists, along with a longer period of time to survive and adapt to European diseases and weapons, I will build up native societies that are able to resist Roman expansion in the long run. One idea I have is for some Roman principles of government, science, and architecture to spread through various native cultures, bringing them "up to speed" so to speak eventually. Not so sure about the plausibility of this, but considering my POD is in 44 bc, I should be able to make it happen with a little work. Anyway, thanks for the comment. I'm hoping to finally get some comments and discussion going on this; I'm working quite hard on this little project.

 

[vultan]

Very good.

 

[ericams2786]

714 AUC

Domestic: The Senate passes a measure (the lex Via Appia) extending the Via Appia north from Rome to the city of Florentia, where it then will eventually split further north and end at both Ravenna and Placentia. Arsinoe IV marries Tiberius Calidus in March. The Senate moves into the now completed first section of the Curius Senatus, the Conloquium, where Senate debate and the passing of legislation occur. Gaius Claudius Marcellus Minor dies, leaving Octavian's sister, Octavia Minor, widowed. Her daughter, the future first wife of Ptolemy Caesar, Claudia Marcella, is born. A small slave revolt in Arretium, lead by the slave Virtrumus of Zela, is defeated by Marcus Vispanius Agrippa before he leaves in June for Egypt to confront the Parthians in Judea. Gaius Vibius Pansa is made Praetor of Dacia after its conquest and begins work on the Via Pansa. The Pact of Misenum is signed in October between the Senate and Sextus Pompeius, largely to assure Rome’s grain supply until Octavian can muster enough strength to invade Sicily.

Military: Agrippa lands in Egypt, and in conjunction with Pharxes Kahotep and Cleopatra, begins a campaign north to confront the Parthian general Orodoaces in Judea. The Roman campaign in Dacia continues, as Caesar, Antony, and the Getae alliance chase the Dacian king Comosicus into northern Dacia. Caesar invades the lands of the Iazyges tribe, conquering them by late September. Caesar then quarters his army in Noricum in preparation for his invasion of Germania in December. Caesar invades Germania in December. Pollio invades Germania from Gaul, capturing the Usipete capital, Caeduum before the end of the year. Sextus Pompeius, from his rebel base in Sicily, invades and conquers Sardinia, leading to a temporary truce signed at Misenum later in the year between Republican forces and those of the remaining optimates.

Battles:
Battle of Napoca (R)
Battle of Hotovum (R)
Battle of Jiadava (R)
Battle of Trius (R)
Battle of Medoslanium (R)
Battle of Cagliari (E)

Literature, Art, and Science: Cicero begins writing his great dissertation on the Lex Magnus and the New Senate, the Nova Respublica. Gnaeus Minius Bibaculus finishes his statue of Julius Caesar and it is erected in the center of the Forum Julium. Caesar begins writing his commentary on the war in Germania, the Commentarii de Bello Germanico.

 

[Pendragon]

Awesome post, will comment a little bit more in detail a little later.

 

[General Zod]

General Zod,
I have actually never read Rominatas or seen the map for the book. When I first began this TL back about 3 years ago or so, I just made a map and asked if anyone thought it was a plausible expansion of Rome. I realize the obvious similarities, however I think certain cliches just simply exist in a TL in which Rome exists to the present.

Well, I think I may have misexplained myself. Sorry. I would not imply that your scenario is any less than original (I'm well aware from the PoD differences, and that you began the TL well before Romanitas was published). I was just curious to hear your opinion on the similarities and differences between your own TL and Sohia Mc Dougall's one, given that as you point out, parallel developments are bound to happen.

I believe that it would be possible for some of the Native American tribes to exist as independent powers, especially if the situation is worked right.

Well, I would not see it's entirely impossible, Meji Japan does prove that a backward society may adapt quick enough to close the huge technological and cultural gap so to avoid assimilation. It's just that IMO it is far, far, far from being the most plausible and likely outcome. IOW, I'm not saying it is impossible, but the TL ought to cherry-pick several PoDs carefully in order to let it happen.

For instance, in my TL I plan on having Roman expansion in North America be relatively slow and I plan on having the natives be somewhat stronger vis-a-vie Rome (because the tech level of Rome will be lower than European colonists in OTL). Because of slow and constant cultural exchange between North American natives and the Roman colonists, along with a longer period of time to survive and adapt to European diseases and weapons,

And here is the cherry-picking I was speaking of. Mind me, there is nothing wrong with a TL author picking a side and choosing PoDs in order to have a desired outcome happen, as long as they are barely plausible. However, he ought to be aware (and outspoken) that he's picking sides.

First of all, it is quite reasonable to assume that when the Romans develop the navigation technology to cross the Atlantic, they also have developed the rest of their technology accordingly. It is also necessary to assume that the lack of the Dark Ages collapse causes the technological-cultural development of the Romasphere to be accelerated several centuries (IMO, the assumption that big centralized empires lead to technological stagnation and political Balkanization is necessary for progress is a big load of manure, Imperial China froze at the very doorstep of the Age of Exploration, clearly a low-probability butterfuly in action). Therefore, Alt-Romans ought to be at least at High/Late Middle Ages technological level, when they discover the Americas.

Also, there does not appear to be a good compelling reason why the colonization of Americas by the Roman Empire ought to proceed any slower than the one by the Early Modern Europeans (esp. the Iberian empires). The demographic factors involved are the same, and the fertile land and natural resources of the Americas would look just as appealing to Roman colonists.

Those factors mean that most likely, in TLs similar to your one, the Native American societies ought to be as badly £$%& in the face of European colonization as IOTL. Maybe the North American natives get to be as ethnically assimilated as the ones of South America instead of exterminated, if the Roman Empire follows the colonization patters of Spain and Portugal (quite likely), but escaping assimilation is really unlikely. It's not altogheter impossible that ONE culture might pull a Meji, however, one might be mindful that it's much more unlikely and outlandish than the Japanese feat: they had to close a 500-year gap, here the natives would have to recover three-four millennia, a feat unprecedented in history. IMO the pre-columbian civilization have to pay the harsh price of their terrible technological backwardness in full.

 

[vultan]

I like it. More please.

 

[ericams2786]

General Zod,

I understand your concern about cherry-picking, but I am attempting to create a 2000 year long history of Rome (and by default the world). As such, most of history after my POD will have to be created by me (alternate philosophies, people, places, government structures, science, art, religions, languages, etc). So what you may consider cherry-picking, I consider necessary in my TL. In the context of my original TL (and things that I will carry over with my revision and book) at least there are some extremely good reasons why the natives in America survive (they have a rough time, but survive nonetheless).

Number 1: The motivations for colonizing America are different than in OTL. The European powers were first of all competing with each other to colonize; as such they often allied or made war by default with certain native tribes. Secondly, they were primarily motivated by gold (wealth) and creating rival empires, along with the original motivation to find a better route to China and the far east. In my TL, discovery of America happens quite by chance by a very small group of settlers seeking adventure and Plato's description of Atlantis. They establish small settlements and eventually (after several decades) survey the area enough to realize that the piece of land they are on is much larger than originally expected. Of course contact with natives has already occurred and considering the primary reason for the expedition is research and adventure, relations are for the most part friendly, as the Roman colonists depend on natives (at least at first) for survival in a hostle new world. This does in fact give time for trade to occur (horses, weapons, tech, etc in exchange for land, certain crops, etc.) and thus gives the natives a chance (some will take the opportunity, some won't in my TL) to improve their situation relative to the Roman colonists.

Number 2: Another reason natives did so badly against OTL colonists IMO is because of the notion that the natives needed to be either exterminated or converted, since most colonists viewed themselves as missionaries. That motivation just simply does not exist in my TL, Rome is still very much a pagan society that (just like OTL) often times assimilates the cultural and religious icons of other civilizations. Roman colonists will simply not see natives as evil or inherently inferior (except treat them perhaps similar to other barbarians in the old world). There may be an emphasis to conquer later as the colony's population grows and there is a demand for it, but the Romans will not try to exterminate local populations, just like they did not in OTL in the old world. Rome is very much a civilization (especially in my TL) that values conquest and then assimilation with the barbarians around them. The Romans never exterminated the Gauls or the Germanic tribes for instance.

Number 3: In my TL there are different domestic and social issues occurring in Rome that will slow down colonization and interest in the new world. Before the time of discovery in my original TL, Rome was involved in a massive one hundred year war with China. Shortly after the Roman world splits in two for almost two hundred years during which time Rome is focused on reuniting its empire. For obvious reasons colonization of more land is not their number one priority (as it was for OTL European powers). Then they have to contend with Mongol invasions and a (albiet much slower spreading and less devastating) variation of OTL's black plague. In my TL, by the time Rome has the ability (and the motivation) to seriously focus on North America, the existing colonists do not want Rome's control (having been largely independent for nearly two centuries) and eventually rebel, starting a revolution. Rome will retain some territory, but the emphasis to colonize virtually vanishes, though it is replaced with a new nation-state. This nation state for obvious reasons will be much different than OTL's United States (though it serves as its parallel in this world) and as such will behave much differently. By now (almost three centuries since colonization began) the natives will have recovered somewhat and adapted to old world diseases as well as assimilating certain cultural and military properties of the Romans (and weapons, horses, etc).

Number 4: A major difference will be the existence of Japanese and Chinese colonies on the west coast. They will take a much different philophy to colonization and basically keep the natives as vassal states unless a need to make war exists. This gives the natives more contact with old world diseases, but also old world weapons and tech, hopefully making them more able to evolve political and military entities that can withstand old world colonization. Now granted, most smaller tribes will either be conquered or be absorbed by other tribal political entities, but some viable native nation-states will come out of my TL for the reasons listed above.

 

[General Zod]

I see your reasons, and mind me, I do not deem the ethnic survival of the native peoples (so no extermination but assimilation) as unreasonable quite the contary. It is the survival of native political entities which I see as unreasonable, given a multiple millennia tech gap to surmount. I acknowledge that if one carefully picks up PoDs it might happen, and I also acknowledge that you exercised all the proper and well-thought care to weave all the necessary PoDs in your TL, so it feels somewhat plausible within the boundaries of your TL. It's just that IMO it feels jarring, in comparison with the rest of your TL, with PoDs much more plausible and likely, to exercise all that effort and IMO obvious authorial bias, in order to have a quite low-probability outcome happen. In other words, it notices that the author is badly picking sides for the Native Americans and wants them to go scot free for their millennia of technological and cultural backwardness, and its jarring. It is done well, but it feels forced nonetheless.

Since I have no issue with the ethnic survival of Native Americans (in ohter words, North America going the Hispanic way), I have no contention whatsoever with Number 2. About Number 1, it feels strange that Roman colonies stay little and isolated for so much time, and there is no rush of colonists from the mainland to grab a new livelihood in the new continent, with all that free and good land laying around, and only a few pitiful barbarians to hold it. Three centuries of lagging in colonial expansion really feels and reads like the author covering the butts of the natives. Even if the Roman Empire is currently distracted by other problems, where are the "huddled masses" of settlers ? Moreover, competition between powers was only a minor motivation behind the rush to the Americas, mostly the powers wanted to grab resources (gold, silver, land, spices, later sugar, etc.) and this motivation does not change whether there are 5 powers to colonize or just one. About Number 3, if the Roman colonies have borken away, then they ought to be expected to behave very much like the USA, Argentina, etc. The demographic and economic factors involved would be very much the same, even if they are more assimilationist and less genocidal culturally. Fine, they will conquer the natives and assimlate them the Roman way, instead of killing them. Rome was very much about conquest and assimilation, not let's raise them to our level and them make peaceful commerce.

At the very very most I can see the butterflies for a tribal state or two growing into an independent buffer state of limited size in the border region between the Roman and Chinese colonies, but large independent native states west of the Mississippi really feels like the Author carefully cherry-picking to save the butts of natives from their well-deserved fate.

 

[ericams2786]

Well you certainly make some good points, hell perhaps I am unknowingly covering their asses, who knows? I will certainly consider what you have said and do some extensive research into all of this when I reach this point in my TL again and in my book. I really want to make this TL as plausible as possible (unlike the first edition of it). My main point is that I want to at least keep one or two north american nation states around, the Aztecs, Incans, and the Mayans, that's really about it. Anyway thanks for the discussion and the criticism, I look forward to more DISCUSSION. Tired of this thread always disappearing after all the effort I put into it.

 

[Lysandros Aikiedes]

I have often imagined that had the Romans endured in their proper culture, what the colonization of North and South America would be like. I take it that both Latin, Punic, and Hellenic Roman citizens, after learning about the New World, would desire to found new communities or the beginnings of city-states on the eastern coasts or the Carribean islands? I take it also that they would write up their own individual constitutions and act autonomouly from the start? New nations founded on city-states based on old Athens, Corinth, Rhodes and even Carthage may take form in the Americas from the OTL locations of Quebec to Buenos Aires.

 

[General Zod]

Well you certainly make some good points, hell perhaps I am unknowingly covering their asses, who knows? I will certainly consider what you have said and do some extensive research into all of this when I reach this point in my TL again and in my book. I really want to make this TL as plausible as possible (unlike the first edition of it). My main point is that I want to at least keep one or two north american nation states around, the Aztecs, Incans, and the Mayans, that's really about it. Anyway thanks for the discussion and the criticism, I look forward to more DISCUSSION. Tired of this thread always disappearing after all the effort I put into it.

Well, the Aztecs, Incans, and Mayans, with their relatively sophisticated states and cultures, already make rather more sense. I got the (maybe wrong) impression that you were shoring up the likes of the Cherokee and Iroquis to become successful nation-states rivaling the Roman and Chinese colonies. That really stroke me at ASB and the author covering their butts. About the native empires, this is my advice: pick one, two at the very very most, among the Aztecs, Incans, and Mayans, and give them all the low-probability butterflies they need to pull a Meji and become successful nation states, within their OTL boundaries please (an Aztec-Maya buffer states covering most of Mexico or an Inca one voer most of Peru may make some sense, them expanding over half of the US Southwest or all over the Andes, nowhere so much). Let the rest, as well as all the other tribes, be swallowed and assimilated by the growing Roman (and Chinese) colonies.

 

[ericams2786]

I actually like that proposal General Zod. I was planning on perhaps having a small Iroquois state and maybe one small plains state as well, but the majority of the North American continent will be covered by the Roman and Chinese (and a few small Japanese) colonies, an Aztec Empire and the much smaller Mayans. In South America I was primarily looking at the Inca, perhaps a small Roman colony and a large colony from an African naval/trading empire located in central/south Africa.

 

[ericams2786]

715 AUC

Domestic: Arsinoe IV gives birth to Decimus Auletius Calidus. Octavian orders the general Spurius Duilius Aquilinus to invade Sardinia and recapture the island from Sextus Pompieus’ forces. A senator from Neapolis by the name of Vibius Arrius Brocchus proposes a bill into the senate to write off all of the debt incurred during the Caesarian Civil War of all of the plebeians in the city of Rome. The measure is voted on, but narrowly fails to reach a majority. Brocchus, Octavian, and other powerful senators continue to look for a way to help the ailing economy by canceling more of the public’s debt. Herod I is proclaimed the king of Judea. Agrippa returns to Rome where he begins building an army and navy for the eventual overthrow of Sextus Pompieus in Sicily. Lucius Volusius Saturninus, Roman statesmen, is born. Marc Antony begins work on the Via Antonia in eastern Germania along the Vistula. Antony establishes Antonia Naharvalia in eastern Germania, a command center along the border that will eventually become the modern city of Naharva.

Military: Agrippa campaigns against Orodoaces in Judea, finally expelling the Parthians from the Roman client state in August. Both Orodoaces and the Parthian king Orodes II die during the campaign and his general Pacorus takes over command of Parthian forces, invading Roman Syria shortly after. Phraates IV becomes the king of Parthia. Antony invades Germania in January, campaigning along the River Vistula and building forts and roads to secure the Republic’s eastern border. Caesar and Pollio continue their conquest of western and central Germania. Pollio meets stiff resistance from a Cherusci chief named Usivius Belicus, who along with the Langobardi and Chatti (and two minor tribes) form the First Germanic Coalition to resist Roman conquest in northern Germania. He then campaigns against the Chatti chief, Veruenos after he invades previously subdued lands in the west of Germania. Pollio manages to quickly conquer the Chatti and much of northern-central Germania by year’s end. Caesar campaigns against the Juthungi king Hydosius and is defeated horribly at Eburodunum, only to avenge his defeat at Stragona months later before campaigning against King Iulopius of the Marcomanni and the First Hermiones Coalition (consisting of the Marcomanni, several tribes of both the Suebi and the Quadi, the Burgundiones, and the Gothini). Caesar then campaigns into Marcomanni lands, defeating Iulopius at Coridorgis and completing the conquest of the Marcomanni upon the defeat of Iulopius’ son Valitinius after allying with the Boiehemum. He continues to campaign relatively unopposed throughout the remainder of the year, subduing the Silingi before the onset of winter. Spurius Duilius Aquilinus invades Sardinia, but is repulsed by Sextus Pompieus’ forces under the command of Marcus Gratius Caninus at the Battle of Portus Torres.

Battles:
Battle of Murutium (R)
Battle of Bogadium (R)
First Battle of Mediolanium (R)
Battle of the River Vidrus (E)
Second Battle of Mediolanium (R)
Battle of Teuderium (R)
Battle of Phabiranum (R)
First Battle of Alisum (E)
Battle of Manarmanis (R)
Battle of Luppia (R)
Second Battle of Alisum (R)
Battle of Arctaurum (R)
Battle of Eburodunum (E)
First Battle of Medioslanium (R)
Second Battle of Medioslanium (I)
Battle of Trevorium (R)
Battle of Felicia (R)
Battle of Hegetinatia (I)
Battle of Stragona (R)
Battle of Hercynii Pass at Hystus (R)
Battle of Coridorgis (R)
Battle of Rhedintovinum (I)
Battle of Marobuduin (R)
Battle of the River Albis (R)
Battle of Castrum Antonium XXII (E)
Battle of Castrum Antonium XXI (E)
Battle of Castrum Antonium XX (R)
Battle of Gertodunum (R)
Battle of Festadava (R)
Battle of Portus Torres (E)

Literature, Art, and Science: Cicero completes his Nova Respublica.

Foreign: The megalomaniac son of King Iulopius of the Marcomanni, Valitinius, deposes his father, becoming king of the Marcomanni and leader of the First Hermiones Coalition. The German historian Agathe of Rhedintovinum travels with Valitinius and begins writing his history on the warlord.

 

[General Zod]

I was planning on perhaps having a small Iroquois state and maybe one small plains state as well, but the majority of the North American continent will be covered by the Roman and Chinese (and a few small Japanese) colonies, an Aztec Empire and the much smaller Mayans. In South America I was primarily looking at the Inca, perhaps a small Roman colony and a large colony from an African naval/trading empire located in central/south Africa.

As I said, I see the possibility for a tribal state (the Sioux might be a good candidate) to evolve someplace in the West as a buffer on the border between the Roman and Chinese colonies, but the independent Iroquois are ASB and should be dumped, they are far too close to the core of the Roman colonization. No native state whatsoever north of Rio Grande and east of the Mississipi, or better the Lousiana-Ontario line. Either an Aztec-Mayan empire occupying most of Mexico and Central America OR an Incan empire occupying most of Peru and Bolivia, not both. Both the Aztecs/Mayans pulling a three-millennia Meji is ASB. Reverse the sizes of the Roman colonies and the African colonies, from what I remember of the map, that African Empire is a fraction of the Roman one, it makes little sense that they would able to grab far more land than the Romans in South America.

This is how I would apportion South America: Peru-Bolivia to the Incas (possibly), the African colony occupying most of Brazil OR Argentina, the Roman colonies occupy the rest. If the Incas do not exist, the Romans occupy OTL Spanish America, the Africans OTL Brazil. In North America: the Aztec-Mayan empire in Mexico-Central America (possibly), the Romans colonies control everything up to the Lousiana-Manitoba line, plus most of Texas, the Chinese colonies control the West up to the Rocky Mountains, a native confederation controls the rest. If the Aztec-Mayan state does not exist, continue the division between the Roman and Chinese colonies in Mexico alongside the Continental divide. Or maybe you can keep both the Aztec and the Maya, but make the Romans advance to the Rocky Mountains.

 

[ericams2786]

Well perhaps it is possible to have a faction (or several tribes) of the Iroquois migrate westward in the face of more aggressive Roman expansion, eventually setting up a viable nation state. Maybe a Little Bighorn or Teutoburg-type defeat on the Romans by the Iroquois would slow their advance westward and give them a chance.

 

[General Zod]

Well perhaps it is possible to have a faction (or several tribes) of the Iroquois migrate westward in the face of more aggressive Roman expansion, eventually setting up a viable nation state. Maybe a Little Bighorn or Teutoburg-type defeat on the Romans by the Iroquois would slow their advance westward and give them a chance.

An Iroquois migration to the Great Plains, where they organize a tribal confederation ? Feels like a fine idea. Just do not expect their Little Bighorn or Teutoburg gives them the means to survive and thrive in their ancestral territories.