a liberal/left Christian U.S.A.?

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
The English colonists get the two big things right. Perhaps after some early mistakes . .

1) they do not keep persons in slavery, and

2) they do not massacre native persons.


And the third challenge . .

3) Independence comes within fifty years of the orginal date. So, English colonists become independent of Britain, although perhaps trade partners like OTL, sometime between 1726 and 1826.


Any ideas?
 

Driftless

Donor
Quakers?

Perhaps the Quakers have an earlier and larger impact, and set the framework for other New World Protestant groups to follow?
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
I do like the idea of the Quakers having a bigger influence. And as far as POD, maybe indentured servants getting a better deal? In addition to questioning what I had been taught at age 10 or 11, that seven years for passage is a fair deal, a couple of years ago I read most of Kathleen M. Brown's Good wives, nasty wenches, and anxious patriarchs: gender, race, and power in colonial Virginia (1996).

Now, it's not near as exciting as it sounds. It's an academic book. It has too much summary, etc., etc., and most of the other sins of academic writing.

But I did gather than most indentured servitude lasted until age 21, and sometimes later. Sometimes the person didn't get the clothes and corn at conclusion like they were supposed to. If the person got pregnant, the length was extended. The "illegitimate" child had a longer than average term(?). Every new rule and law seemed to be against the servants.

I kind of gathered it was a blurry thing between service and a guaranteed job, and a lot depended on how decent an individual the master was.
 

Driftless

Donor
I do like the idea of the Quakers having a bigger influence. And as far as POD, maybe indentured servants getting a better deal? In addition to questioning what I had been taught at age 10 or 11, that seven years for passage is a fair deal, a couple of years ago I read most of Kathleen M. Brown's Good wives, nasty wenches, and anxious patriarchs: gender, race, and power in colonial Virginia (1996).

Now, it's not near as exciting as it sounds. It's an academic book. It has too much summary, etc., etc., and most of the other sins of academic writing.

But I did gather than most indentured servitude lasted until age 21, and sometimes later. Sometimes the person didn't get the clothes and corn at conclusion like they were supposed to. If the person got pregnant, the length was extended. The "illegitimate" child had a longer than average term(?). Every new rule and law seemed to be against the servants.

I kind of gathered it was a blurry thing between service and a guaranteed job, and a lot depended on how decent an individual the master was.

For too many, Slavery by another name, but with at least a working chance at release at some point...
 

U.S David

Banned
No 22nd Ammendet and Have Jimmy Carter win every election since 1976

1976
1980
1984
1988
1992
1996
2000
2004
2008
2012

Yes, Jimmy Carter would have to win atleast 10 terms and be president for 40 years. America would be more liberal/leftish and Chirstan.

It can be done.
 
The Religious Right is a relatively recent thing. The religious community, while you did have the right wing elements as well, was often very Liberal, active in social causes such as Civil Rights and welfare programs for the poor, born out of Christian ideals of charity and brotherhood.

What happened was abortion, as well as an increased tolerance of homosexuality. The religious community traded the Christian charity ideal for a Right Wing which was against abortion and pledged to repeal it, and which was against all the feared sins like homosexuality and "permissiveness".

The problem is that the human brain is limited (as a misanthrope, I'd say stupid) so everything only falls into twos: the one thing and the thing opposing it. Abortion has nothing to do with gun politics which has nothing to do with taxes or the size of government, but there's eventually only two major groups in anything.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
Richard Nixon was a Quaker. And even though he ran a nasty campaign in 1968 using code rights like "states rights" and more for maintaining the status quo of second-class citizenship for African-Americans, and following up on Goldwater in '64, was another big step of winning over the South to the Republican Party,

in a sense he was also the last liberal president on domestic policy. His administration saw the formation of the EPA and OSHA. He favored a national health insurance surprisingly like Obamacare, or Romneycare for that matter. He spoke in favor of more research on sickle cell anemia, although one book said this was a shift from other health dollars. He supported a type of guaranteed minimum income, although lower than welfare and in part because he really didn't like social work busybodies. And I think Nixon also supported the ERA.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
The following is from Brown's book about Africans in 1600s Virginia:

Good Wives, Nasty Wenches, and Anxious Patriarchs: Gender, Race, and Power in Colonial Virginia, Kathleen M. Brown, University of North Carolina Press, 1996. ‘Published for the Institute of Early American History and Culture, Williamsburg, Virginia, by the University of North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill and London.’

page 108:

‘ . . . Only twenty-three Africans appear on the 1625 muster for the colony, which numbered nearly twelve hundred English. The name of eight of the twenty-three — including “Angelo,” “Antonio,” “Anthony,” “Isabell,” and “John Pedro” — suggest previous contact with the Portuguese, perhaps even Catholic baptism. Mary was one of only ten African women. In the twenty years after the muster, as these other Africans faded from colonial records, she and Anthony reemerged on Virginia’s Eastern Shore. With status accruing from both his property and his responsibility for legally dependent family members — an arrangement that would have been the envy of many of his English male contemporaries — Anthony might have considered himself a successful man in both an English and African sense.

‘Had Mary and Anthony arrived in Virginia a generation later, however, their chances of achieving freedom would have been significantly compromised by a set of laws distinguishing between the privileges and work roles of English and African women. Until the 1660s, slavery in Virginia remained legally ill-defined. . . . . The earliest slave laws in the colony built upon these implicit racial foundations. The first such measure, passed in 1643, consisted of a tithe levied on African women from which English women were exempt. This legal measure effectively made it harder for subsequent generations of Africans to do what Anthony and May had done earlier in the century: marry, purchase freedom, and establish families and independent households.

‘As slavery became a more important form of labor in Virginia, eventually replacing indentured servitude, early constructions of racial difference provided the legal background for more blatant measures of legal and social discriminating between African and English women. Perpetual bondage for the children of enslaved women distinguished these mothers from their English indentured counterparts after 1662. Christianity, which had long been a theme of English discussions of Africans, also became part of the legal discourse of slavery, race, and freedom, demarcating “Negro” people as a separate group from Christians by 1667. . . ’
 
I'm just screwing around, my history knowledge of the last thousand years is pretty embarrassing, but how's this:

No USSR infiltration of the Manhattan project. WW2 ends on time, the Cold War starts on time as well, in the 1950s an America hopped up on their side having a monopoly on nuclear weapons starts a Hot War in Germany. Russia is destabilized and collapses, there is a pro-Western government installed, an Orthodox theocracy to counteract the 'atheistic Soviets'. Russia rebuilds power quickly with US help. China split with Russia earlier and joined with the Americans, they manage to develop nuclear weapons on their own. The Russians are unsurprisingly unstable, and a theocratic dictatorship comes to power, which the US doesn't mind too much. Until it starts to express its independence, by now it is probably the 80s or later. They get their hands on nuclear weapons eventually, and a new Cold War starts, this time with a theocratic Russia. The US brands itself as the progressive alternative, social conservatism declines, economically and militarily the US remains fairly right-wing, however Christianity falls into the left-wing, supporting pacifism and compassion for the poor. The second Cold War ends much the same as IOTL, from within Russia. The right-wing is still a force to be reckoned with but by the modern day a socially liberal Christian left is the primary force in America.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
Maybe if the English colonists had their major emphasis on fishing with farming only being their minor emphasis?

To me, fishing is a more flexible, stable source of food anyway. Yeah, there will be up years and down years, but you're not going to have these terrible years where disease, rain, or freeze whips out most of your crop. And some of these Atlantic fisheries, the English and Indians could fish for decades without putting a serious dent into them. Less land use at the beginning and more time to get used to each other.
 
How about Nixon wins in 1960, party fatigue means that Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. loses to Hubert Humphrey in 1968, Humphrey wins reelection in 1972, and then somebody like Bobby Kennedy wins in 1976. At this point, with northern liberals dominating the party and no southern strategy, the Dixiecrats form their own party, which grabs the religious right's support in the 1980s. As a result, the Religious right ties itself to a perpetual third-party with little chance of winning major offices besides a handful of senate and House seats and maybe a governorship or two.
 
Without slavery I think a lot more convict labour would be used in the Plantations.
More bonded labour and more ways of extending bond labour beyond the official 7 years. bond extended for drunkenness , fighting , being lazy, late for work or not meet work quota.
America becomes a penal colony.
More Native Americans would survive but still relative low numbers as disease was the biggest problem.
American becomes a dominion like Canada.
It is possible that Christian Churches in America might have 10% of income as a membership fee to use the money on help the poor education and hospitals. Voluntary work for those who do not have the money to contribute to church welfare programmes.
 
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