A Greater Ethiopia

[TruεΛmbitiθη ΛS]

Hello there, in a series of continuing posts I plan on creating (or rather expanding and maintaining) a greater Aksumite/Abbysinian/Ethiopian Empire with the goal of it becoming something akin to that of Europes Habsburgs domains with colonies, kingdoms, duchies, and nation-states of their own, much like our timelines Habsburg realms I plan on having this empire come into conflict with the Ottoman Turks. My general plan for this is for it to go up until the modern-day starting in the day of Saint Kaleb of Aksum and ending roughly in the 21st century. (Although I will most likely go back and forth creating new stories or retooling old ones)
Before I start this I'd like to have a few suggestions in order to better align my thoughts with the expectations of those reading this tale.

 

[Evil Crusader]

Doing extremely long timelines can prove tricky because you have to keep in mind history diverges.
Such an Ethiopia would undoubtedly have an impact on how and whether Islam develops, let alone whether there will be a political entity named 'Ottoman Turks'.
Prepare the journey well, lest it ends up too implausible.

 

[TruεΛmbitiθη ΛS]

Doing extremely long timelines can prove tricky because you have to keep in mind history diverges.
Such an Ethiopia would undoubtedly have an impact on how and whether Islam develops, let alone whether there will be a political entity named 'Ottoman Turks'.
Prepare the journey well, lest it ends up too implausible.

I'll heed your words well, but I doubt a less volatile and unstable Ethiopia would have any major effects on Islam due to many early followers of Muhammed fleeing to Aksum to avoid persecution in their homelands, but it'll be important for me to keep the ramifications of the butterfly effect in mind if I don't want to screw things up.

 

[Tom_B]

An intriguing and ambitious project. You do seem to be underestimating the butterflies you would be introducing into the early days of Islam. I would strongly suggest doing a lot of research into the highly complex history of Yemen. Then there is the historical controversy about the Fall of the Aksumite Empire. Was there really a Queen Yodit? Was she a Jewish invader from the north as per tradition or as some historians suggest a ruler of pagan Damot to the south(with yet another possibility being a Muslim. There is the Badit who ruled the Showa Sultanate) Lastly look into the fascinating Christian Kingdom of Alodia.

 

[Silver01]

An intriguing and ambitious project. You do seem to be underestimating the butterflies you would be introducing into the early days of Islam. I would strongly suggest doing a lot of research into the highly complex history of Yemen. Then there is the historical controversy about the Fall of the Aksumite Empire. Was there really a Queen Yodit? Was she a Jewish invader from the north as per tradition or as some historians suggest a ruler of pagan Damot to the south(with yet another possibility being a Muslim. There is the Badit who ruled the Showa Sultanate) Lastly look into the fascinating Christian Kingdom of Alodia.

this i committed the mistake of not reaserching the early days of islam and other things like there was a rebellion in 610s in aksum that weakend them and maybe its an explanation as to why they didn't interfere on Mohamed rise that rebellion , the climate getting drier and the muslim unity explains why control of the red sea was lost in such little time

 

[Carter I'm Yog]

this i committed the mistake of not reaserching the early days of islam and other things like there was a rebellion in 610s in aksum that weakend them and maybe its an explanation as to why they didn't interfere on Mohamed rise that rebellion , the climate getting drier and the muslim unity explains why control of the red sea was lost in such little time

Interesting. I took it for granted the Aksumites couldn't interfere in the Bello Ultima because Abrahar (that general who conquered Yemen in late 6th century, I might have gotten his name wrong) rebelled and crippled their whole military since the conquest of Yemen (Himyar) was sort of an all-out last hurrah for Aksum, but I guess I was wrong.

 

[Silver01]

Interesting. I took it for granted the Aksumites couldn't interfere in the Bello Ultima because Abrahar (that general who conquered Yemen in late 6th century, I might have gotten his name wrong) rebelled and crippled their whole military since the conquest of Yemen (Himyar) was sort of an all-out last hurrah for Aksum, but I guess I was wrong.

Hatsani Daniel's rebellion is really unknow since the few sources on it

 

[Osman Aga]

Hello there, in a series of continuing posts I plan on creating (or rather expanding and maintaining) a greater Aksumite/Abbysinian/Ethiopian Empire with the goal of it becoming something akin to that of Europes Habsburgs domains with colonies, kingdoms, duchies, and nation-states of their own, much like our timelines Habsburg realms I plan on having this empire come into conflict with the Ottoman Turks. My general plan for this is for it to go up until the modern-day starting in the day of Saint Kaleb of Aksum and ending roughly in the 21st century. (Although I will most likely go back and forth creating new stories or retooling old ones)
Before I start this I'd like to have a few suggestions in order to better align my thoughts with the expectations of those reading this tale.

Ethiopia? A Nation State? How? If Ethiopia should be united and a "Greater Ethiopia" it will have many other nationalities as nowadays Ethiopia. Unless you want your Ethiopia go on a genocide against the Afar and Oromo while forbidding the Tigray to speak their own language (Or reversed, the Tigray oppressing the Amhara because they are the rulers).

A Habsburg domain? Sure, if you mean Austria but with Colonies. Austria had many ethnicities with the same or slightly different beliefs (Catholics with Orthodox Christians and Protestants). There is one problem though: Austria is flat, it has no large remote areas as OTL Ethiopia has with many borders and being 75% size of Eastern Europe + the land that Ethiopia will also get (Somalia? Eritrea? Djibouti? Parts of Kenya, Sudan, South Sudan maybe?).

I don't think Ethiopia isn't able to modernize and be an even greater nation than they are now. They were a civilization longer than most of Africa and they have potential. But the situation is in no way comparable with the Habsburgs. You have a situation where Ethiopia has to start from the scratch. I think a comparison with the Ottomans is more likely as the Ottomans owned larger areas, had to recentralize the Empire for a long period to enforce reforms there while also being multi ethnic and multi religious Empire with a large part of the Empire being hard to access. Ethiopia is in the same situation.

My view... If Ethiopia controls the Amhara and Tigray lands by the start of the 1800s they could potentially consolidate power and make a move from that point on. If they control Eritrea for the sea access, Europeans can reach and trade with Ethiopia which is good for knowledge exchange. The war with the Ottomans is pretty much non priority for the Ottomans, as the Ottomans only owned the Coasts until the 1820s, with Ottoman Egypt reaching the Ethiopian Borders from Sudan in the 1820s. Which means, the Ottomans wouldn't put a lot of their resources on the Coast of Eritrea and let Egypt deal with it, making such victories easier for Ethiopia (The Ottomans lost Yemen many times to locals only to return much later).

Tl'dr: Ethiopia will be in no sense a nation state because it is too multi ethnic and will only succeed if they genocide every non-Tigray/non-Amhara population while forcing assimilation on the Amhara/Tigray (Depending on who rules). They would resemble Austria, Ottoman Empire and Russia in terms of demographics, the Ottoman Empire in terms of geography, population and decentralized situation.

By the way... unless your 5th century PoD does not affect much outside nowadays Ethiopia, the odds of the Ottomans or Habsburgs ever rising is zero due to butterflies. Which means you can fill it in any way you want for the 15th century. But I must warn you, such a large period can really demoralize your efforts. A shorter period is advised.

 

[TruεΛmbitiθη ΛS]

An intriguing and ambitious project. You do seem to be underestimating the butterflies you would be introducing into the early days of Islam. I would strongly suggest doing a lot of research into the highly complex history of Yemen. Then there is the historical controversy about the Fall of the Aksumite Empire. Was there really a Queen Yodit? Was she a Jewish invader from the north as per tradition or as some historians suggest a ruler of pagan Damot to the south(with yet another possibility being a Muslim. There is the Badit who ruled the Showa Sultanate) Lastly look into the fascinating Christian Kingdom of Alodia.

I most likely am overestimating this grand project although I will most likely have to blur the lines between fact, fiction, and the divergent tales of local legends, though Yemen's history is very long and complex it also has a long history with Ethiopia (One tale I've heard that has been tossed around is that after a disaster that destroyed the land of punt situated in modern-day Eritrea and Djobuiti Sabaean settlers arrived in and influenced the Cushitic cultures which ended up with a mix of Horn African and Arabian culture.) Likewise, the abundance of the legends of Yodit (Or Gudit as she was called elsewhere) is too abundant to be tossed aside as fairytales. Though most depictions of her vary I personally believe she was either a Pagan from the Southern tribes of modern Ethiopia (Although I don't rule out the fact that she was either a Jew or a Muslim.) who rebelled against Semitic domination over the Cushitic, and Nilotic tribes which led to the collapse of the empire and the establishment of the Zagwe dynasty. (I also believe that the medical warming period played a part in this which might've forced the Semitic speakers to venture deeper into Ethiopia displacing the Cushitic local tribes.)
Anyways this project is mostly for fun and there will likely be events that are not much to your liking (and that of others) and I do apologize for that in advance but I just want to see what I can accomplish without utterly destroying the world we know today.

 

[Carter I'm Yog]

Anyways this project is mostly for fun and there will likely be events that are not much to your liking (and that of others) and I do apologize for that in advance but I just want to see what I can accomplish without utterly destroying the world we know today.

A fifth century POD tends to make the world utterly unrecognizable.

 

[TheLionOfJudah]

Hello there, in a series of continuing posts I plan on creating (or rather expanding and maintaining) a greater Aksumite/Abbysinian/Ethiopian Empire with the goal of it becoming something akin to that of Europes Habsburgs domains with colonies, kingdoms, duchies, and nation-states of their own, much like our timelines Habsburg realms I plan on having this empire come into conflict with the Ottoman Turks. My general plan for this is for it to go up until the modern-day starting in the day of Saint Kaleb of Aksum and ending roughly in the 21st century. (Although I will most likely go back and forth creating new stories or retooling old ones)
Before I start this I'd like to have a few suggestions in order to better align my thoughts with the expectations of those reading this tale.

I like the idea behind it but you're really going about this the wrong way. I mean like the PoD imo seems pretty good and the idea of establishing a nation-state is not entirely ludicrous (it is the 5th Century, ethnic groups across the globe go through revolving doors), but a Habsburg like domain is a bit too weird for the region. I get the comparison you want to make, a large domain ruled by a powerful Christian dynasty BUT the Habsburgs were built fundamentally different from both Axumite and Solomonic dynasties. A conflict and rivalry with the Ottomans is believable (and did happen OTL) , but that al depends on how far you want to take the Butterfly Effect. Also like everyone has elaborated, don't try to go that far with the TL, 1500 years is a long gap.

But in terms of actual suggestions, I can see the survival of a strong and powerful Axum/Ethiopia having a direct affect on the early Caliphates, definitely coming into conflict with the Umayyads in the first years of the Islamic Conquests. I also see a more concentrated expansion into the Highlands, especially if you want to follow the environmental collapse school of thought (TL;DR, pretty much ascribes the collapse of Axum to the desertification of the Tigray Plateau in the mid to late 7th Century).

 

[Evidential]

I like the idea behind it but you're really going about this the wrong way. I mean like the PoD imo seems pretty good and the idea of establishing a nation-state is not entirely ludicrous (it is the 5th Century, ethnic groups across the globe go through revolving doors), but a Habsburg like domain is a bit too weird for the region. I get the comparison you want to make, a large domain ruled by a powerful Christian dynasty BUT the Habsburgs were built fundamentally different from both Axumite and Solomonic dynasties. A conflict and rivalry with the Ottomans is believable (and did happen OTL) , but that al depends on how far you want to take the Butterfly Effect. Also like everyone has elaborated, don't try to go that far with the TL, 1500 years is a long gap.

But in terms of actual suggestions, I can see the survival of a strong and powerful Axum/Ethiopia having a direct affect on the early Caliphates, definitely coming into conflict with the Umayyads in the first years of the Islamic Conquests. I also see a more concentrated expansion into the Highlands, especially if you want to follow the environmental collapse school of thought (TL;DR, pretty much ascribes the collapse of Axum to the desertification of the Tigray Plateau in the mid to late 7th Century).

The collapse of Axum might have had many causes, of which environmental change is just one of them.
We have not heard of a sudden desertification in the eastern Nile Valley that affected much of Ethiopia (at least from the 4th century onwards) and did not leave a lasting effect. The desertification of eastern Africa was mostly in the previous millennium, when the civilizations there were relatively weak.

Furthermore, the population of Axum, Tigray, and the northern Highlands were concentrated in the cities. Cities tend to die when their population collapses, or move somewhere else (because their infrastructure collapses), because the lands around them become too sparse for farming. So, there would be no massive famine in Axum or Ethiopia in general. In fact, there was no major famine in the 8th and 9th centuries, despite some general problems with the period.
Also, the civilization was connected to large networks of trade, and was a large enough population for the products to spread through it. For example, if there was no long-distance trade, there would have been no Amharic (from the Highlands).