A Fully Welsh Wales in the 20th (and 21st) Century

[Abdominalz]

What would the consequences be of Welsh surviving as the prevailing mother Tongue throughout industrial Glamorgan and Monmouthshire up to the present day?

First of all, I would like to point out that this ATL is not too far fetched. Merthyr Tydfil, which was Wales's largest town for much of the industrial revolution, was 68% Welsh speaking in 1891 but fell to 50% in 1911. It is a similar story in the Rhondda. The period from the 1880s to the First World War was a critical period in which heavy Anglophone immigration combined with a reduced need for those incomers to learn Welsh (due to growing bilingualism among the indigenous Welsh there) resulted in language shift and these areas being Anglophone today.

But what if Welsh had survived as the mother tongue of at least 80% of the population of such industrial areas and the rural areas in between across South Wales up to the present day? How would Welsh Politics be different today? Would Plaid Cymru have been founded?

 

[UKFA]

What would the consequences be of Welsh surviving as the prevailing mother Tongue throughout industrial Glamorgan and Monmouthshire up to the present day?

First of all, I would like to point out that this ATL is not too far fetched. Merthyr Tydfil, which was Wales's largest town for much of the industrial revolution, was 68% Welsh speaking in 1891 but fell to 50% in 1911. It is a similar story in the Rhondda. The period from the 1880s to the First World War was a critical period in which heavy Anglophone immigration combined with a reduced need for those incomers to learn Welsh (due to growing bilingualism among the indigenous Welsh there) resulted in language shift and these areas being Anglophone today.

But what if Welsh had survived as the mother tongue of at least 80% of the population of such industrial areas and the rural areas in between across South Wales up to the present day? How would Welsh Politics be different today? Would Plaid Cymru have been founded?

Imo yes, and they would have been more successful than in the OTL. Anything which is 'different' serves to divide, and the mere concept of a difference can be enough to spark a nationalist movement. It does also need some form of oppression or imbalance, or perhaps a sense of superiority to thrive however. The real challenge comes with the invention of radio and television, and then later the internet. My family were from the Scottish Isles, and speaking gaelic was eventually considered uncouth, uneducated and backwards. So perhaps if there is a University or at least a thriving tradition of poetry and song in Welsh it could be enough to hold on to the language.

 

[rfmcdonald]

If Wales had remained thoroughly Welsh-speaking, with most of its population using Welsh as their first language and most of its territory being inhabited by Welsh-speaking populations, then it's quite likely that Welsh nationalism would be significantly stronger. How could it not be, with a non-English language in wide use to galvanize Welsh identity versus non-speakers? Organized Welsh nationalism might have been even stronger.

 

[teg]

To be honest, I think you've got things the wrong way round. Make Wales independent, preferably with hostile relations between the rump Britain and Wales, and Welsh will remain the dominant language most likely. Best way to achieve this in my opinion; Red England (and Scotland).

teg

 

[Abdominalz]

If Wales had remained thoroughly Welsh-speaking, with most of its population using Welsh as their first language and most of its territory being inhabited by Welsh-speaking populations, then it's quite likely that Welsh nationalism would be significantly stronger. How could it not be, with a non-English language in wide use to galvanize Welsh identity versus non-speakers? Organized Welsh nationalism might have been even stronger.

I can see Wales having a failed independence referendum in 2014 like Scotland and I can see the whole of Wales being pro-EU in the Brexit referendum.

 

[funnyhat]

Agree that Wales probably needs to be independent for this to happen. At a minimum I think it needs to have always been legally distinct from England, as Scotland has been.

 

[Monter]

To be honest, I think you've got things the wrong way round. Make Wales independent, preferably with hostile relations between the rump Britain and Wales, and Welsh will remain the dominant language most likely. Best way to achieve this in my opinion; Red England (and Scotland).

teg

Being independent didn't help Gaelic though.

 

[jabberwoky]

Being independent didn't help Gaelic though.

In fairness, thats becouse the Irish government dropped the ball big time on that front. As for OPs question, I know that the Welsh language was tied up in the Welsh Reformation and with the Methadist church of Wales to some extant. Maybe make the church emphasise Welsh even more then it actually did?

 

[Abdominalz]

Maybe make the church emphasise Welsh even more then it actually did?

Certainly, in the industrial districts of South Wales which were seeing heavy Anglophone immigration, Non-conformist chapels increasingly provided some of their services in English so that those incomers would not loose their faith. Such Non-Conformist chapels having a more nationalist attitude might help.

 

[jabberwoky]

Certainly, in the industrial districts of South Wales which were seeing heavy Anglophone immigration, Non-conformist chapels increasingly provided some of their services in English so that those incomers would not loose their faith. Such Non-Conformist chapels having a more nationalist attitude might help.

Interesting, maybe weakening the industrial revolution in Wales would help also? Making it a less disirable place to immigrate to, and thus shealding the language?

 

[Analytical Engine]

Interesting, maybe weakening the industrial revolution in Wales would help also? Making it a less disirable place to immigrate to, and thus shealding the language?

This means having to weaken the industrial revolution in the whole UK, and probably elsewhere. Lots of coal in south Wales, much of which was exported during the 19th century, never mind being used domestically.

 

[jabberwoky]

This means having to weaken the industrial revolution in the whole UK, and probably elsewhere. Lots of coal in south Wales, much of which was exported during the 19th century, never mind being used domestically.

And weakening the UK industrial revoltion as a whole would be difficult, and cause many butterflies, the weakening of Welsh only one of them.