A fractured HRE (a map of a WI)
- Thread starter Shadow Knight
- Start date
Sure, but why is it ASB? The TL did start to diverge around thirty years prior to last update.
Of course I know it's an ATL, it just seems the Author is going for historical plausability, and being a history know-it-all with quite a lot of knowledge in that precise region, I thought I could help out.
Exactly. It's highly improbable that the region would change that drastically in 30 years, much less 70. By the way, I'm judging this from the map, I've only gotten to page 20 on the TL.
Now, let me list some, but not all, things that are improbable:
I don't think it's probable that two unhistorical tribes would appear in 30-50 years out of no where. There never was a tribe called Lettes or.. Zhumcs, I can't read the last letter, so forgive me if I spelled it long.
How did the Curonians have their name changed? Seems a bit weird.
Why are the Semigallians in central Lithuania, but not in the middle of the Gulf of Riga coast or Semigallia?
How did the Latgalians get to eastern Lithuania, but not the territories they held historically?
How did the numerically less Livonians take so much of the land inhabited by the Curonians?
How did the numerically less Estonia/Ugaunian tribes take so many Latgallian territories, who would be supported by other Baltic tribal governments in case of a northern war of aggression?
If the POD was around 700 A.D. this would be plausible, but anything after 1000 A.D? No, not really.
I can provide you with a lot of sources, maps and other information to help you out, if you want to make the region historically possible, of course.
I'm not saying everything should be like it was OTL, but it should at least resemble OTL.
Of course I know it's an ATL, it just seems the Author is going for historical plausability, and being a history know-it-all with quite a lot of knowledge in that precise region, I thought I could help out.
Exactly. It's highly improbable that the region would change that drastically in 30 years, much less 70. By the way, I'm judging this from the map, I've only gotten to page 20 on the TL.
Now, let me list some, but not all, things that are improbable:
I don't think it's probable that two unhistorical tribes would appear in 30-50 years out of no where. There never was a tribe called Lettes or.. Zhumcs, I can't read the last letter, so forgive me if I spelled it long.
How did the Curonians have their name changed? Seems a bit weird.
Why are the Semigallians in central Lithuania, but not in the middle of the Gulf of Riga coast or Semigallia?
How did the Latgalians get to eastern Lithuania, but not the territories they held historically?
How did the numerically less Livonians take so much of the land inhabited by the Curonians?
How did the numerically less Estonia/Ugaunian tribes take so many Latgallian territories, who would be supported by other Baltic tribal governments in case of a northern war of aggression?
If the POD was around 700 A.D. this would be plausible, but anything after 1000 A.D? No, not really.
I can provide you with a lot of sources, maps and other information to help you out, if you want to make the region historically possible, of course.
I'm not saying everything should be like it was OTL, but it should at least resemble OTL.
Ah any inconsistencies then probably stem from a map I was using as my primary source. See here. I know I used one other map but it is at work [and since I'm not there I can't verify] so any other inconsistencies might stem from that one.
I probably should have checked more sources but for some reason I found it hard to find maps of the Baltic region around 1100 AD at the time so I had to go with what I could find. I'd be glad to see what maps and sources you have and correct what I can. Thanks for the help.
While the map itself is good, the Baltic tribes are very, very inaccurately shown.
I found a few maps for you.
An old map showing the placement of the northern Baltic tribes, the borders of the tribal governments and the extent of the Livonians, superimposed over modern borders.
http://homepage.mac.com/uldis/livonia/livciltis.jpg
The best thing about is that it shows minorities (The striped areas).
I couldn't find a good map for the other tribes, but this will do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Baltic_Tribes_c_1200.svg
The only change that would be in 1100's would be the borders for the northern tribes would be those that are shown in the first map, and you would need to split Lithuania into three tribes, because pre-1150, they still had some differences.
The Samogotians would extend to the lands west of the letter U in the word "Lithuanians" on the map, the Aukšitians would extend east. The Lithuanians would have all the the lands south of the Neris river.
Thanks! I'll give them a look over and make some changes to the map.