Hello and welcome to the four way cold war thread. This is my first time making a thread here so feedback and constructive criticism is appreciated.
A Four Way Cold War
- Thread starter EmperorKazooKid
- Start date
There are a few differences in WWII that help set the stage for the Cold War. The biggest and most important change is that in the summer of 1940, as the French army retreats through France and Paris falls, The idea of an Anglo-French Union, made to help the allies continue the war against Germany, is announced. It is received with mixed reactions in both nations, but some politicians remind the French and British public that France probably wouldn't be independent anyway under the Nazis. A few days later, a vote is held in both the French and British parliaments. The measure narrowly passes in France and is a bit more successful in the UK. And so, in August of 1940, France and Britain merged into the Anglo-French Union. The remaining French army withdrew to North Africa and the Axis now had to fight a two-front war in North Africa. This shortens the North African War by around nine months, which in turn makes events like the Italian landings and D-Day happen earlier. WWII in Europe ends in October 1944. The Pacific theater goes similarly to OTL, as the Anglo-French don't have much resources to spare on protecting French Indochina.
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Intriguing start. I'll keep watching. Be prepared for lots and lots of questions. Why did war in North Africa end only 6 months earlier? Ideas or questions like was Coordinate invaded ala Crete?
Not sure yet. But you would need four clearly distinct ideologies.
Communism and democratic capitalism were the two in OTL. Theocracy could be the third. Hard part is the fourth because fascism was thoroughly beaten and discredited, and it would be the best candidate.
Four-way cold wars are hard. What's to stop two of the blocs from ganging up on a third? Might as well just be a multi-polar world.
On the other hand, they don't have to have distinct ideologies, just dominated by four large countries. I could see an Anglo-French Union dominating western Europe, the British Commonwealth and the (former) French empire; a more isolationist USA dominating the rest of the Americas, Japan and the Philippines; the USSR, dominating eastern Europe; and China, dominating the rest of southeast Asia. Or something along those lines.
Possible. But having a long term cold war is difficult when the opposing side shares your values and culture. You can still have rivalries, but the Cold War was due to the US and USSR having mutually incompatible political systems and wanting to export them worldwide.
One could look at cold war Sweden and Yugoslavia for inspiration; With the US being capitalist, USSR being communist, and perhaps a social democratic Europe - one that rejects the totalitarianism of the USSR as well as the USA's conservatism. Of course, one would somehow have to make the USA more conservative in the cold war than in OTL. The issue is to somehow make the US equally bad as the Soviets in European's eyes, while still wanting to export its ideology (so that Europe for example can't object the Korean War since Europe is essentially doing the same thing - it has to to export its ideology).
Alternatively, one could instead make the Anglo-French Union more conservative and racist than the US. How about the USA wanting to export capitalism worldwide, but otherwise leaving individual countries be, whilst the Anglo-French Union follows a "white man's burden"-kind of ideology, where they think that conquering and teaching "lesser races" to become like the white man. This ideology could still go against nazism, since it doesn't want to kill off other races. In this TL, the US somehow becomes less racist than it was OTL (for example, no racial segregation).
For shits and giggles maybe have a militarised Non-Aligned Movement that's tired of everybody's shit.
I could see a loose alliance between non-aligned countries helping each other out, wanting to export its ideology of (somewhat ironically) national independence. So if for example Vietnam gets invaded by the US, non-aligned countries such as Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Ethiopia sends equipment, money, and in rare cases manpower to assist the country, no matter if it's communist or capitalist. A global lite-version of NATO, one could say.
Issue is how it would export its ideology, since it can't go on the offensive and forcing countries to become independent.
That could work, although social democracy seems only incrementally different from the mixed system in the US. The neocolonial model could work better - the USSR wanting to conquer the developing world in the name of "liberation", Europe wanting to do it under the guise of human development, and the US advocating self determination, sort of a combination of the Monroe and Truman doctrines.
Presumably the Anglo-French Union will have some sort of 'colonialist' ideology, and one that's insistent enough to alienate the US. That, or the US is just more anti-colonial and/or Anglophobic than in OTL.
I would assume that the colonial empires would therefore continue to exist in some form; perhaps the Commonwealth and Francafrique are merged into a loose coalition of autonomous entities. It's likely that a more empire-friendly power would seek to preserve Italian colonialism in Tripolitania at least, perhaps also in Somalia and Eritrea. Belgium, Holland, Spain and Portugal might cosy up to the Anglo-French Union in order to maintain their own colonies.
The situation in India might be rather tense if independence was denied. Dominion status might, however, suffice, though the mood amongst the Indian nationalists had turned by the end of the war towards full independence. Perhaps butterflies will change things.
I would assume that the colonial empires would therefore continue to exist in some form; perhaps the Commonwealth and Francafrique are merged into a loose coalition of autonomous entities. It's likely that a more empire-friendly power would seek to preserve Italian colonialism in Tripolitania at least, perhaps also in Somalia and Eritrea. Belgium, Holland, Spain and Portugal might cosy up to the Anglo-French Union in order to maintain their own colonies.
The situation in India might be rather tense if independence was denied. Dominion status might, however, suffice, though the mood amongst the Indian nationalists had turned by the end of the war towards full independence. Perhaps butterflies will change things.
Now we just need to come up with a fourth faction.
I've always found China kind of lazy since it has been quite isolationist during its modern history, as well as just advocating a different kind of communism. Since Nazi Germany is defeated, nazism/fascism is a no-go.
A theocracy could work, but the Islamic world is in no shape to take on the global powers. Perhaps a Japan wrecked by the Pacific Wars that gets taken over by Shinto radicals, wanting to get revenge on the USSR and the US for destroying its empire, and taking down the European colonialists while they're at it?
I'm partial to this set up
WARSAW PACT
-Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc
-Marxist-Leninism
-Basically the same as OTL
-Supports communism world wide
ORGANIZATION OF AMERICAN STATES
-Isolationist US and Latin America
-Possibly Canada and British Caribbean
-Possibly independent Quebec if Canada stays British aligned
-Neoliberal
-Lassiez faire economics and liberal social policies
-Supports anti-communism and anti-colonialism alike
BRITISH COMMONWEALTH
-UK, the Old Dominions, and anglicized former colonies
-Social Democrat
-Left wing economic policies but socially conservative
-Strong labour unions, but also strong class system still in place
-Supports British friendly kings, emirs and despots in the old world
EUROPEAN UNION
-Dominated by a militant, nuclear armed France
-France annexed the Saarland from Germany, Walloonia from Belgium and all of Luxembourg
-West Germany dismantled into small french satellite states
-"Managed Democracy" in France, elections held but don't actually effect anything
-Right wing but not fascist
-De Gaulle has close relations with Franco in Spain and Salazar in Portugal
-Resembles Napoleonic Era Europe in some ways
-Possibly an independent Quebec
-Supports European/White imperialism in Africa
WARSAW PACT
-Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc
-Marxist-Leninism
-Basically the same as OTL
-Supports communism world wide
ORGANIZATION OF AMERICAN STATES
-Isolationist US and Latin America
-Possibly Canada and British Caribbean
-Possibly independent Quebec if Canada stays British aligned
-Neoliberal
-Lassiez faire economics and liberal social policies
-Supports anti-communism and anti-colonialism alike
BRITISH COMMONWEALTH
-UK, the Old Dominions, and anglicized former colonies
-Social Democrat
-Left wing economic policies but socially conservative
-Strong labour unions, but also strong class system still in place
-Supports British friendly kings, emirs and despots in the old world
EUROPEAN UNION
-Dominated by a militant, nuclear armed France
-France annexed the Saarland from Germany, Walloonia from Belgium and all of Luxembourg
-West Germany dismantled into small french satellite states
-"Managed Democracy" in France, elections held but don't actually effect anything
-Right wing but not fascist
-De Gaulle has close relations with Franco in Spain and Salazar in Portugal
-Resembles Napoleonic Era Europe in some ways
-Possibly an independent Quebec
-Supports European/White imperialism in Africa
That would be a hot war. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Hello, back again for another update! The way I'm going to structure this thread is essentially do two updates every day. The afternoon update will be a New chapter of the TL, and the morning update will be a Q & A. That said, Q & A time!
There ya go! Second update and first Q & A. New updates coming tomorrow.
I have an idea, but I'm not going to spoil it.
Thanks for the praise! As for North Africa, I might fix it to say, 9 months, but the allies feared sea lion and some French troops would be in Britain just in case.
Your right about communism and democracy. Again, im not willing to give spoilers about the other two.
We shall see...
Some of those ideas are in my plan for this TL, but I also have a few others.
Definitely an interesting concept. Parts of this could show up in this TL.
Disclaimer: there will be a non-aligned movement, but it will be smaller and won't be a major faction like the other four.
Interesting, concept. Some of this might end up in the scenario.
Anglo-France will be on par with USA and USSR. I won't go into specifics though. As for India, I'll make an update about them.
A few of these ideas could work and might show up, but Japan just lost WWII. They aren't going to be a superpower. I'll make an apdure on them but I don't make promises about when that will be.
That's an interesting idea. This could show up at a later date. Though I think you should keep in mind that France and Britain are one country.
There ya go! Second update and first Q & A. New updates coming tomorrow.
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