A Different Trinity

[Farfromhome]

Would it be possible for Constantine at Niceia to have gotten church leaders to accept the idea of a Holy Trinity that was: Father, son and emperor. Not necessarily giving the emperor any godliness or anything. But making his rule a kind of chinese "mandate of heaven" kind of thing. I mean he is the official head of the church well maybe that comes later. But could it be possible that Constantine and later Emperors could use this to stablize and control their christian populations.

 

[Max Sinister]

A very difficult decision for the church. On the one hand they gain a lot of influence, but still - wouldn't that be too much like the earlier emperors who demanded that everyone reveres them as a god?

 

[The Mists Of Time]

The big reason the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost) after the Church moved into Europe was to offset and eliminate the pagan Old Religion which in most cases already had a trinity.

Many of the old pagan religions had been followed in Europe for ages and ages even pre-dating Christianity and even Judaism. Many of these old pagan religions were female Goddess based and had a trinity of Maiden, Mother, Crone. The Triple Goddess, representing the three stages of a woman's life.

Christianity wanted to be the only religion, so they had to replace the Goddess trinity with a Christian trinity.

In fact much of what the Church did and what we today think of as Christian came about because the Christianity wanted to be the only religion and tried to eliminate The Old Religion (paganism) by replacing pagan things with Christian ones.

 

[Don_Giorgio]

Some Emperors after Constantine I did styled themselves as Pontifex Maximus...
After all all Emperors did carried some liturgical duties during masses along with the Patriarch till the Fall of Constantinople in 1453...
Acts like blessing as bishops do or incensing or staying with the bishops inside the altar of the church were typical for an Emperor...

 

[carlton_bach]

Very few Roman emperors got away with claiming divinity - it was practically unacceptable. Even the very late ones at best claimed close association with a deity. So for Constantine to do this would be regarded as highly improper, and if the church went along with it, it would cost it credibility, both with the pagan world and the faithful (after all, the trinity was a widely accepted and popular dogma long before it was made the only acceptable interpretation).

 

[The Mists Of Time]

Christianity follows The Ten Commandments and The First Commandment is "Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me."

For the Emperor to claim divinity and for the Church to go along with that, both would have paid a heavy political price as well as a heavy price in terms of credibility. The price would have been much more than it was worth to either the Emperor or the Church. In a case like that Christianity, or at least the organized Christian Church as we think of it might well have fallen along with the fall of The Roman Empire.

 

[Ran Exilis]

Very few Roman emperors got away with claiming divinity - it was practically unacceptable. Even the very late ones at best claimed close association with a deity. So for Constantine to do this would be regarded as highly improper, and if the church went along with it, it would cost it credibility, both with the pagan world and the faithful (after all, the trinity was a widely accepted and popular dogma long before it was made the only acceptable interpretation).

Very true.

And also keep in mind that during the days of Constantine, there was a deep conflict within the Church between the adherants of Arius' teachings and the trinitarians, and there was also the conflict with the Donatists and other radical parties that refused to allow people who had given up their Christian beliefs under persecution to join the Christian community again.

Anything like enstating a trinity that includes the emperor is guaranteed to deeply intensify these existing conflicts,
not to mention make them spread like wildfire throughout the Empire.

And that would only severely destabilize the Empire, which is exactly what Constantine sought to prevent...

 

[Max Sinister]

Diocletian was "dominus et deus", master and god.

 

[Farfromhome]

But is there away that constantine could have disassociated the divinity of his position while still claiming to have the emperor as the hereditary head of the church. In this way he could have strengthened the empire by association of a mandate from heaven but without the worship. So just like the popes today he is the first among many. Or just a stepping stone to god. Just like the Caliph's of Islam he would rule both the political and religous sides of the realm. Also with his ending of the persuction of christianity the leaders of the church's would owe him a favor. And it would help the understanding of the early christian trinity, because who really knows what the holy ghost is suppose to signify anyway.

 

[Larrikin]

Differing Trinity

The Eastern emperors were styled "God's Vice Gereint on Earth" - IOW they were Gods right hand man, this is effectively what you are proposing.

 

[Farfromhome]

Exactly but what if from it's begining the Catholic church held the dogma that the emperor was god's choice and voice on earth. This would negate the power of the pope from the get go. In so being removing the major reason for the split of the Catholic and Catholic Orthodox Church.

 

[Keenir]

Many of the old pagan religions had been followed in Europe for ages and ages even pre-dating Christianity and even Judaism. Many of these old pagan religions were female Goddess based and had a trinity of Maiden, Mother, Crone. The Triple Goddess, representing the three stages of a woman's life.

you're confusing modern/neo-paganism with Classical paganism. (err, vice versa, actually)