A Different Russia
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The Conference of Ulms: 1850
“Order! I said ORDER!” bellowed Kaiser Wilhelm. The entire hall was in a ruckus. Tsar Constantine was off in a corner engaged in heated debate with Palmerston. Louis Napoleon was napping, his head down on the table, while the Sardinian envoy, Count Cavour, impatiently drummed his fingers. The Austrian representative was frantically conferring with his multitude of advisors. Wilhelm inwardly scoffed at him- the young Hapsburg seemed bright enough, but was completely unprepared for the serious negotiations to follow. Now Metternich, that man had been a true statesman. His country would sorely miss him today… Wilhelm’s musings were brought to a halt as the table of representatives convened.
“Now, we have many pressing matters to discuss, but it should be no secret to anyone here where the main issue lies,” Wilhelm started.
“For the benefit of our, shall we say, junior Austrian colleague, let it be clear that we refer to the various independence movements in his domains that have still not been adequately dealt with.” said Constantine, with a distinctive smirk.
Wilhelm grimaced. “Though you put it forth with your typical lack of subtlety, you are correct, Tsar. The Italians, Hungarians, and now the Romanians have all established de facto independence from Vienna. Obviously, these states cannot be allowed to continue in some shadowy quasi-legitimate status. Either they must be reconquered and placed back under the control of the Hapsburgs, or they must be accepted as legitimate nations. I have no stake in the Italian matter, so you all have elected me as moderator of this summit. I would invite our Sardinian-Piedmontese representative to give us his countries stance first.”
The small, olive skinned man stood up and cleared his throat. “It is the will of King Emmanuel that I make it clear the Milanese and Lombard rebels have applied for, and received, protectorship status within Sardinia-Piedmont. Any attempt to reclaim these areas and remove them from their rightful Italian union will be regarded as a declaration of war.” The Austrian representative exploded out of his seat in a fit of fury. Before he could vent his feelings upon Cavour, Wilhelm intervened.
“Easy, easy now, calm down. Let us look at this dispassionately. I would ask each representative to state their countries position on this development in turn. Tsar, you may begin.”
Constantine did not even bother to rise from his seat or hide his bored expression. “I defer to the wisdom of those nations who have more experience dealing with Italians. My domains are far away, and regardless of what happens, Russia will not intervene on either side, specifically regarding Northern Italy.”
Palmerston was next. “It is no secret I do not look fondly upon Austria’s continued possession of Italian possessions. It is the position both of myself and her majesty that a national people must be able to decide their own fate, and are not to be lumped into some hidebound monolith that does not respect their basic rights. I vote most strenuously to accept the Sardinian claims as legitimate.”
The Austrian representative could not hid his look of alarm. He had obviously been counting on international support for reclamation of Northern Italy by the Hapsburgs.
The newly crowned emperor of France put the final nail in the Austrian coffin with three simple words: “I support Sardinia.” Wilhelm was not surprised. Austria and France had battled too often for too many years over continental supremacy for Louis to resist the opportunity to twist the knife in the wound.
The Austrian envoy fell back into his seat, looking like a man who had just witnessed his own death. He full well knew Louis’ words signaled that he would help Sardinia militarily against Austria, giving Sardinia a decisive edge. Wilhelm felt a measure of pity for the young man, so obviously overmatched, and unready for the pressures placed on him. What did the youngster expect though? It made better sense for everyone involved to simply let the Italians control their own business. This was not 1819- nationalism could not be so simply thrust under the carpet, especially with a people as passionate about, well, everything as Italians. Anyway, he had to keep this conference moving while everyone was still feeling diplomatic.
“The next groups to be addressed are the Eastern subjects of Austria. The Hungarians and Romanians have declared themselves as independent states. I must break from my position of impartiality to state my own nation’s preference in the Hungarian issue. Should Hungary and Romania be allowed independence, they will only unbalance the delicate power structure the Great Powers have worked so hard to achieve in the Balkans. Regardless of the outcome of this conference, I am sure Austria will attempt to conquer their rebellious subjects. If the Great Powers claim neutrality, Hungary and the Romanians will be forced to appeal to either the Ottomans- unthinkable, I know, but war makes strange bedfellows- or strike a side deal with a Great Power, most likely Russia. Don’t look so offended Constantine, you know it’s true. Therefore, it is for the greater good that we support Austria’s reclamation of Hungary and Romania. Prussia lends its official support to Austria.” The Austrian representative shot Wilhelm a look of gratefulness.
Cavour chimed in: “Sardinia-Piedmont offers its services in Hungary, in exchange for permanent Austrian renouncement of any and all claims in Italy.” The Austrian envoy quickly nodded his agreement.
The entire table turned to look at Louis-Napoleon, next in turn to speak. Slowly, but with great forcefulness, he gave his stance. “France is to busy to start a war on the other side of Europe. I have many internal affairs that are far more pressing. France needed no help in 1848; she will give none now.”
Tsar Constantine, long silent, finally revealed what he had been turning over in his head during the entire conference. With a thin smile on his lips, he spoke. “Russia has an unique role in these Eastern proceedings. It is the feeling of many in the motherland that Russia has a duty to protect its Slavic brothers against the rapacious advances of their oppressors.”
Wilhelm rolled his eyes. Yes, the Russians just loved to protect those Ukrainians and Poles. Why sometimes, they just had to conquer them to save them from the real bad guys. Despite his cynicism, Wilhelm recalled that reports of revolts in Russian territories had been growing less and less. It seemed the Russians had finally figured out how to walk the fine line between stability and paranoia.
Constantine continued. “Inasmuch, I feel compelled by honor to inform you, my peers, that Russia is taking the Romanians from the Hapsburgs under its protective wing. Though I know this must mightily inflame you all, it is my position. Romania will be a protectorate of Russia; this is the only way to insure their safety. In exchange for recognition of this fact, Russia offers its services in the Hungarian business.”
Palmerston slammed his hand down on the table, spilling papers and quills everywhere. “This is preposterous! You cannot simply claim an entire country whenever you feel like it!”
Constantine smiled sweetly at the enraged, beet red Englishman. “I just did.”
“It is the official position of Her Majesty that any attempts to subjugate the Romanians will be regarded as a declaration of war!” Wilhelm and the Austrian quickly added that they would also declare war on Russia should the land grab commence.
“So be it!”
The conference erupted into twenty different shouting matches, with the entourages of all the different parties yelling angrily at one another. Wilhelm, scowling mightily, stormed out. It had all started so promisingly. The Italian situation had been resolved quickly and efficiently, and the eastern rebels would have too if it weren’t for Russia’s damnable ambition. The world would soon find out whether Russia’s guns matched up to its talk.
Comments would really be appreciated, this is the only TL I've ever done
“Order! I said ORDER!” bellowed Kaiser Wilhelm. The entire hall was in a ruckus. Tsar Constantine was off in a corner engaged in heated debate with Palmerston. Louis Napoleon was napping, his head down on the table, while the Sardinian envoy, Count Cavour, impatiently drummed his fingers. The Austrian representative was frantically conferring with his multitude of advisors. Wilhelm inwardly scoffed at him- the young Hapsburg seemed bright enough, but was completely unprepared for the serious negotiations to follow. Now Metternich, that man had been a true statesman. His country would sorely miss him today… Wilhelm’s musings were brought to a halt as the table of representatives convened.
“Now, we have many pressing matters to discuss, but it should be no secret to anyone here where the main issue lies,” Wilhelm started.
“For the benefit of our, shall we say, junior Austrian colleague, let it be clear that we refer to the various independence movements in his domains that have still not been adequately dealt with.” said Constantine, with a distinctive smirk.
Wilhelm grimaced. “Though you put it forth with your typical lack of subtlety, you are correct, Tsar. The Italians, Hungarians, and now the Romanians have all established de facto independence from Vienna. Obviously, these states cannot be allowed to continue in some shadowy quasi-legitimate status. Either they must be reconquered and placed back under the control of the Hapsburgs, or they must be accepted as legitimate nations. I have no stake in the Italian matter, so you all have elected me as moderator of this summit. I would invite our Sardinian-Piedmontese representative to give us his countries stance first.”
The small, olive skinned man stood up and cleared his throat. “It is the will of King Emmanuel that I make it clear the Milanese and Lombard rebels have applied for, and received, protectorship status within Sardinia-Piedmont. Any attempt to reclaim these areas and remove them from their rightful Italian union will be regarded as a declaration of war.” The Austrian representative exploded out of his seat in a fit of fury. Before he could vent his feelings upon Cavour, Wilhelm intervened.
“Easy, easy now, calm down. Let us look at this dispassionately. I would ask each representative to state their countries position on this development in turn. Tsar, you may begin.”
Constantine did not even bother to rise from his seat or hide his bored expression. “I defer to the wisdom of those nations who have more experience dealing with Italians. My domains are far away, and regardless of what happens, Russia will not intervene on either side, specifically regarding Northern Italy.”
Palmerston was next. “It is no secret I do not look fondly upon Austria’s continued possession of Italian possessions. It is the position both of myself and her majesty that a national people must be able to decide their own fate, and are not to be lumped into some hidebound monolith that does not respect their basic rights. I vote most strenuously to accept the Sardinian claims as legitimate.”
The Austrian representative could not hid his look of alarm. He had obviously been counting on international support for reclamation of Northern Italy by the Hapsburgs.
The newly crowned emperor of France put the final nail in the Austrian coffin with three simple words: “I support Sardinia.” Wilhelm was not surprised. Austria and France had battled too often for too many years over continental supremacy for Louis to resist the opportunity to twist the knife in the wound.
The Austrian envoy fell back into his seat, looking like a man who had just witnessed his own death. He full well knew Louis’ words signaled that he would help Sardinia militarily against Austria, giving Sardinia a decisive edge. Wilhelm felt a measure of pity for the young man, so obviously overmatched, and unready for the pressures placed on him. What did the youngster expect though? It made better sense for everyone involved to simply let the Italians control their own business. This was not 1819- nationalism could not be so simply thrust under the carpet, especially with a people as passionate about, well, everything as Italians. Anyway, he had to keep this conference moving while everyone was still feeling diplomatic.
“The next groups to be addressed are the Eastern subjects of Austria. The Hungarians and Romanians have declared themselves as independent states. I must break from my position of impartiality to state my own nation’s preference in the Hungarian issue. Should Hungary and Romania be allowed independence, they will only unbalance the delicate power structure the Great Powers have worked so hard to achieve in the Balkans. Regardless of the outcome of this conference, I am sure Austria will attempt to conquer their rebellious subjects. If the Great Powers claim neutrality, Hungary and the Romanians will be forced to appeal to either the Ottomans- unthinkable, I know, but war makes strange bedfellows- or strike a side deal with a Great Power, most likely Russia. Don’t look so offended Constantine, you know it’s true. Therefore, it is for the greater good that we support Austria’s reclamation of Hungary and Romania. Prussia lends its official support to Austria.” The Austrian representative shot Wilhelm a look of gratefulness.
Cavour chimed in: “Sardinia-Piedmont offers its services in Hungary, in exchange for permanent Austrian renouncement of any and all claims in Italy.” The Austrian envoy quickly nodded his agreement.
The entire table turned to look at Louis-Napoleon, next in turn to speak. Slowly, but with great forcefulness, he gave his stance. “France is to busy to start a war on the other side of Europe. I have many internal affairs that are far more pressing. France needed no help in 1848; she will give none now.”
Tsar Constantine, long silent, finally revealed what he had been turning over in his head during the entire conference. With a thin smile on his lips, he spoke. “Russia has an unique role in these Eastern proceedings. It is the feeling of many in the motherland that Russia has a duty to protect its Slavic brothers against the rapacious advances of their oppressors.”
Wilhelm rolled his eyes. Yes, the Russians just loved to protect those Ukrainians and Poles. Why sometimes, they just had to conquer them to save them from the real bad guys. Despite his cynicism, Wilhelm recalled that reports of revolts in Russian territories had been growing less and less. It seemed the Russians had finally figured out how to walk the fine line between stability and paranoia.
Constantine continued. “Inasmuch, I feel compelled by honor to inform you, my peers, that Russia is taking the Romanians from the Hapsburgs under its protective wing. Though I know this must mightily inflame you all, it is my position. Romania will be a protectorate of Russia; this is the only way to insure their safety. In exchange for recognition of this fact, Russia offers its services in the Hungarian business.”
Palmerston slammed his hand down on the table, spilling papers and quills everywhere. “This is preposterous! You cannot simply claim an entire country whenever you feel like it!”
Constantine smiled sweetly at the enraged, beet red Englishman. “I just did.”
“It is the official position of Her Majesty that any attempts to subjugate the Romanians will be regarded as a declaration of war!” Wilhelm and the Austrian quickly added that they would also declare war on Russia should the land grab commence.
“So be it!”
The conference erupted into twenty different shouting matches, with the entourages of all the different parties yelling angrily at one another. Wilhelm, scowling mightily, stormed out. It had all started so promisingly. The Italian situation had been resolved quickly and efficiently, and the eastern rebels would have too if it weren’t for Russia’s damnable ambition. The world would soon find out whether Russia’s guns matched up to its talk.
Comments would really be appreciated, this is the only TL I've ever done
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Glen
Moderator
srv fan said:
Damn fine start, srv fan! The only thing I might suggest is in the beginning, instead of no revolt, have the reactionaries in the nation try to put Nicholas on the throne unsuccessfully. Then the ones getting crushed and branded enemies of the Tsar are the most reactionary of the old order, giving Constantine a stronger hand in his reforms from the onset, and for putting his own people in positions of power.
Glen
Moderator
srv fan said:
Simple enough. Have the altered conditions in Russia lead to a few more successful and adventurous former serfs go to Alaska for the fur trade, but finding gold. Then all of a sudden there's a darn good reason for the Russians to keep it...and to jumpstart a trans-siberian railway...
Glen
Moderator
srv fan said:
Cool. However, Romanians aren't Slavic, so that appeal isn't going to work.
Instead, Constantine would cite them as coreligionists, as both are Orthodox. The Hungarians are neither Slavs nor Orthodox, so it makes a natural division for him to take the one under his protection and concede the other as under the protection of Austria.
Will this somewhat "reformed" Russia have an interest in southeast Asia, or it would strictly interest itself in China, Korea, and Japan?
This forum member, for one, is interested in a Russian East Indies...
This forum member, for one, is interested in a Russian East Indies...
Stalker
Banned
Russia hads always had quite a widely spread cass of merchants. Since Peter, She also had manufacture owners non-aristoctares. Demidovs clan, for example. These, since the early 18th century, had grown into mining and industrial empire on Ural and became one of the richest and most influential men in the Empire. But generally, you are right, quantitively, the Russian bourgeoisie by the 19th century was far behind most of the European countries. Yes, Czar is still authocrat, and aristocratic way of governance is a major obstacle to rapid development.
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Yes, no argument will come from me here.
Make Rezanov's (early 19th century) expedition to California and Fort-Ross starting giving its fruits in way of agricultural products to feed Alaska. Constanitine should pay more attention to this issue than Nicholas. And, probably, earlier discovery of Gold in Yukon basin by Russians.
Thanks!
One more moment concerns another page with the text of the Ulms conference. So, having started to read your TL from beginning, here, I a little bit am running before time but cannot help saying it right now because it at once struck my eye. The actual address to a Russian Czar "Vashe Imperatorskoye Velichestvo" - "Your Imperial Majesty". Simple dipomatic etiquette requires it. If you want to be simply polite, it should at least be "Vashe Velichestvo" - "Your Majesty" but, of course, not like Tsar. Nobody addresses to a king or an emperor, "hey, king!" or "hey, emperor".
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Map Questions
If Russia is supporting Greece here along with Britain/France, wouldn't Greece get more territory than that.
?In 1848 isn't Schelwig/Holstein still part of Denmark ?
====
?So do Whe have the same Far East, or are there Butterflies there as Well?
With a Different Crimean War, Russia may not be as Interested in the East [Wins]
Or even more Interested [lost even more than OTL]
Treaty of Aigun [1855]and Convention of Peking, [1860]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Aigun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_Peking
If Russia is supporting Greece here along with Britain/France, wouldn't Greece get more territory than that.
?In 1848 isn't Schelwig/Holstein still part of Denmark ?
====
?So do Whe have the same Far East, or are there Butterflies there as Well?
With a Different Crimean War, Russia may not be as Interested in the East [Wins]
Or even more Interested [lost even more than OTL]
Treaty of Aigun [1855]and Convention of Peking, [1860]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Aigun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_Peking
A lot of potential left here...
A toast! To thread necromancers!
PS - Yeah, a more realisticly depicted conference might likely take 5-10 days to say what you have taking hours, but what the heck. You got the information across, and we didn't have to suffer through: "Then the young Hapsburg passed yet a another note, now the nineteenth, to the Prussian monarch. The new writing suggested the use of a semicolon in their mutual resolution regarding Hungary, where before there had been a comma. The ruler of Prussia signalled that more discussion would be required, and further conversations were postponed till after tea."
A toast! To thread necromancers!
PS - Yeah, a more realisticly depicted conference might likely take 5-10 days to say what you have taking hours, but what the heck. You got the information across, and we didn't have to suffer through: "Then the young Hapsburg passed yet a another note, now the nineteenth, to the Prussian monarch. The new writing suggested the use of a semicolon in their mutual resolution regarding Hungary, where before there had been a comma. The ruler of Prussia signalled that more discussion would be required, and further conversations were postponed till after tea."
This TL actually very interesting especially don't written part yet.
.Without Constantine Warsaw Revolt more likely would not happen. In Poland Constantine was neither observing the Polish laws nor liberal.