A Black Rebellion in the Early 20th Century

[NKVD]

The segregationist South was an immensely brutal place if you were black, more brutal than most people seem to be aware of. Black women, and black girls as young as eleven, were raped by white men with impunity; black men and boys were mutilated, lynched, and sent to the electric chair for things as simple as refusing to sell land, looking the wrong way, or playing tag with a white girl (seriously -- two fourteen year old black boys were castrated and lynched for playing tag with a white girl).

In particular, there was a wave of brutality that followed the return of black vets from World War I, to put them "back in their place."

What's the chance that there could be a black insurrection in the South, between, say, the end of WWI and the start of the IOTL Montgomery bus boycott?

 

[Mike Stearns]

In all likely the US Army is going to intervene in order to prevent a race war, but congratulations. You just strangled the Civil Rights Movement in its cradle.

 

[eliphas8]

I think it would be possible with a more powerful Communist Party Of America and with Roosevelt somehow being replaced with a more conservative politician who doesn't adequately deal with the problems of the depression leading to a general turn towards hard leftism among the most marginalized members of society. The CPUSA had always wanted to set itself up as the party of American Blacks, they probably could if they where a viable group to defend against the clans and the white citizens councils.

 

[starwarsfan]

I think it would be possible with a more powerful Communist Party Of America and with Roosevelt somehow being replaced with a more conservative politician who doesn't adequately deal with the problems of the depression leading to a general turn towards hard leftism among the most marginalized members of society. The CPUSA had always wanted to set itself up as the party of American Blacks, they probably could if they where a viable group to defend against the clans and the white citizens councils.

So communist militias?

 

[eliphas8]

So communist militias?

Honestly I'd probably actually call them communist Friekorps given how most of the members are gonna be drawn from World War I veterans.

 

[Dom Pedro III]

I think it would be possible with a more powerful Communist Party Of America and with Roosevelt somehow being replaced with a more conservative politician who doesn't adequately deal with the problems of the depression leading to a general turn towards hard leftism among the most marginalized members of society. The CPUSA had always wanted to set itself up as the party of American Blacks, they probably could if they where a viable group to defend against the clans and the white citizens councils.

I'm not convinced of this. African Americans as a whole were somewhat skeptical of Communism because of its attitude towards religion. The church was one of the few institutions going back to the early days of slavery that blacks in the United States were able to legally participate in. It has been a big part of the African American social fabric ever since. This doesn't even take into account the innate prejudices of the Communist Party organizers that might have been unappealing to them. I'm not saying that there couldn't have been a larger embracing of Communism amongst American blacks, but I don't really see how it would happen.

 

[d32123]

I'd be interested in seeing a TL where communism or really any revolutionary ideology develops and has success among African Americans in the South, rather than being brought in by white Northerners.

 

[eliphas8]

I'd be interested in seeing a TL where communism or really any revolutionary ideology develops and has success among African Americans in the South, rather than being brought in by white Northerners.

Really being honest I'd think you'd need a pree 1900s pod. One gestating idea I've had is to have a southern black emerge as one of the major voices of the SLP and IWW in the south. Or something like Malê Rising where black socialism is something of an accident of history caused by rebellious slaves choosing to run their former plantations as agrarian collectives.

 

[starwarsfan]

I'm not convinced of this. African Americans as a whole were somewhat skeptical of Communism because of its attitude towards religion. The church was one of the few institutions going back to the early days of slavery that blacks in the United States were able to legally participate in. It has been a big part of the African American social fabric ever since. This doesn't even take into account the innate prejudices of the Communist Party organizers that might have been unappealing to them. I'm not saying that there couldn't have been a larger embracing of Communism amongst American blacks, but I don't really see how it would happen.

Well, a Christian Socialist Revolutionary movement could occur.

 

[eliphas8]

I'm not convinced of this. African Americans as a whole were somewhat skeptical of Communism because of its attitude towards religion. The church was one of the few institutions going back to the early days of slavery that blacks in the United States were able to legally participate in. It has been a big part of the African American social fabric ever since. This doesn't even take into account the innate prejudices of the Communist Party organizers that might have been unappealing to them. I'm not saying that there couldn't have been a larger embracing of Communism amongst American blacks, but I don't really see how it would happen.

I do kind of agree, it's a longshot but it's the closest thing to plausible I could think of in three minutes. If given time and someone to bounce ideas off of this could be an interesting timeline but it needs work.

 

[Japhy]

Honestly you would have to remove every possible "safety valve" for African Americans that developed to push for a real outburst of racial rebellion.

Like, you'd need to have actual Apartheid in the American South, where Blacks wouldn't be allowed escape the system by moving North and West. Like you need to remove the Great Migration from the realm of possibilities. And then you need to get Southern Governments being willing to spend money and secure the power for themselves that allows them to constantly keep this American Apartheid in place.

 

[elkarlo]

What about during WWII? between the race riot in Detroit and the explosion at Port Chicago, there were some serious racial tensions Esp since WWII was about fighting racism in Europe. Some more instances of major mistreatment of blacks, and maybe no Mrs Roosevelt and you can get some serious Black unrest in the US during WWII

 

[eliphas8]

I'm not convinced of this. African Americans as a whole were somewhat skeptical of Communism because of its attitude towards religion. The church was one of the few institutions going back to the early days of slavery that blacks in the United States were able to legally participate in. It has been a big part of the African American social fabric ever since. This doesn't even take into account the innate prejudices of the Communist Party organizers that might have been unappealing to them. I'm not saying that there couldn't have been a larger embracing of Communism amongst American blacks, but I don't really see how it would happen.

I do kind of agree, it's a longshot but it's the closest thing to plausible I could think of in three minutes. If given time and someone to bounce ideas off of this could be an interesting timeline but it needs work.

 

[Emperor Julian]

To be honest, I think that the only POD that could work would be having more black people in the South compared to whites, which would be early 19th Century or earlier to accomplish.

 

[Dom Pedro III]

Well, a Christian Socialist Revolutionary movement could occur.

The question is does this get us to a violent rebellion though? I would expect a Christian Socialist ideology to discourage the use of violence.

I think what you would really need is a perception among African Americans that the rebellion could actually succeed. By "succeed" I mean actually achieve some kind of goal rather than be completely crushed. If they thought that the government was unable or unwilling to invest the time, blood and money to put the rebellion down, it might seem worthwhile. Being a racial minority makes that something of a hard sell because you know the authorities will respond and you're never going to bring a majority of people to your side.

 

[Thoresby]

I think you have to make things much worse than just Jim Crow or even Apartheid, any armed rebellion would basically be an extended and messy form of suicide by US Army/Police/Militia/Lynch Mob. The weight of population and resources means that any uprising would be completely hopeless and White attitudes to blacks would mean it would be usher in even more brutality after its defeat. Bearing that in mind you are only going to see an uprising if gas chambers start being built. Look a Jews of Eastern Europe, as much as they hated the Nazi's and were mistreated by them it wasn't until mass executions started that you had enough people with nothing to lose.

 

[Dom Pedro III]

Another factor is that Southern blacks had other options available to them. Like moving North. And they did in droves.

The recipe for a large revolt is going to be a weaker government, less developed areas offering places where guerillas can easily hide, fewer whites compared to blacks, and no way for the blacks to leave. So basically you need a 20th century Confederacy.

 

[LHB]

Honestly you would have to remove every possible "safety valve" for African Americans that developed to push for a real outburst of racial rebellion.

Like, you'd need to have actual Apartheid in the American South, where Blacks wouldn't be allowed escape the system by moving North and West. Like you need to remove the Great Migration from the realm of possibilities. And then you need to get Southern Governments being willing to spend money and secure the power for themselves that allows them to constantly keep this American Apartheid in place.

Well there's other ways to do that. If you end up with a North that's sufficiently racist enough that laws banning southern blacks from renting or buying property become widespread that could strangle the Great Migration in the cradle. While there still is the possibility of going West that isn't the same option that heading north of the Ohio was; life on the frontier wasn't exactly a picnic and if you're taking a family along with you that's going to make things even more difficult. There's also much less economic opportunity, comparatively speaking, to the much more heavily urbanized and industrialized North.

I'm not sure on what would be a good POD to get that, but it's another avenue, just one that requires people to be bigger jerks than they were OTL.

The question is does this get us to a violent rebellion though? I would expect a Christian Socialist ideology to discourage the use of violence.

Actually it is very possible you could get a handy justification floating around. In Latin America one of the roots of Liberation Theology is the concept of the "violence of the oppressed" which argues that striking out against oppression is perfectly OK and justified in the eyes of God. Given the circumstances facing post-Civil War African-Americans in the US I wouldn't see it as terribly far-fetched for a clever, angry preacher to come up with a similar idea and given the circumstances it could take off.

I think what you would really need is a perception among African Americans that the rebellion could actually succeed. By "succeed" I mean actually achieve some kind of goal rather than be completely crushed. If they thought that the government was unable or unwilling to invest the time, blood and money to put the rebellion down, it might seem worthwhile. Being a racial minority makes that something of a hard sell because you know the authorities will respond and you're never going to bring a majority of people to your side.

The only way they could guarantee victory is if you have a situation where the black population (somehow, no idea HOW to swing this), Chinese immigrants, and European immigrants manage to overcome their differences and make common cause against the WASPs. That could get you enough numbers that it's doable on paper but getting to there would NOT be easy. American racism was born out of the fears of colonial Virginia plantation owners that their white indentured servants and black slaves would rise up against them again and succeed the second time, ever since then it has been used as a pretty potent tool of social control via divide and conquer. You would need to have a long string of especially nativist, anti-immigrant administrations, Congresses, and laws passed over the course of decades to crack that which would require a pre-1900 POD.

 

[black angel]

seems unlikely to work in any way, while black populations might still be majorities in some areas the movement of black populations to the North-east (and less so the West west) was already very much underway.

 

[Dom Pedro III]

Actually it is very possible you could get a handy justification floating around. In Latin America one of the roots of Liberation Theology is the concept of the "violence of the oppressed" which argues that striking out against oppression is perfectly OK and justified in the eyes of God. Given the circumstances facing post-Civil War African-Americans in the US I wouldn't see it as terribly far-fetched for a clever, angry preacher to come up with a similar idea and given the circumstances it could take off.

Quite possibly though I'm not sure what fuel the Christian Socialist angle actually provides on top of their general anger about the injustice done to them in that case.

The only way they could guarantee victory is if you have a situation where the black population (somehow, no idea HOW to swing this), Chinese immigrants, and European immigrants manage to overcome their differences and make common cause against the WASPs. That could get you enough numbers that it's doable on paper but getting to there would NOT be easy. American racism was born out of the fears of colonial Virginia plantation owners that their white indentured servants and black slaves would rise up against them again and succeed the second time, ever since then it has been used as a pretty potent tool of social control via divide and conquer. You would need to have a long string of especially nativist, anti-immigrant administrations, Congresses, and laws passed over the course of decades to crack that which would require a pre-1900 POD.

I can see blacks rising up as a part of a larger worker revolt, which is sort of what this sounds like.

But for a revolt started by black revolutionaries over issues concerning African Americans, they have to at least think it could succeed.

One thing that might happen though is an early civil rights movement where non-violent mass demonstrations begin. Naturally, the police will respond with violence as they did OTL. The crackdown is unlike anything ever seen in the South before. The police and paramilitary forces like the Klan begin systematically exterminating anyone connected or believed to be connected with the protests. The protesters begin arming themselves and fighting back. So rather than setting out to rebel, they stumble into rebellion. They'll lose, but they'll rack up a body count themselves.

But some of those protesters-turned-rebels might melt away into swampy areas and continue a small guerilla campaign. They might use terror tactics like car bombs, etc.