Infanta Leonor, Infanta Beatriz, Infanta Manuela and Infanta Mariana
A Big and Happy Spanish Habsburg Family: Charles V and Isabella of Portugal has 13 children
- Thread starter The Gybson Boy
- Start date
So maybe Anna of Austria or Maria of Austria for Ferdinand
Infanta Isabella to Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy
Infanta Catalina to Alfonso II d'Este, Duke of Ferrara
Infanta Leonor to Francesco I de'Medici
The Viceroyalty would probably go to Juan
The Archbishopric would probably belong to Carlos
Any engagement ideas for Juan, Alfonso and Carlos?
OK, finally got home, so I can explain my point better (without trying to type this out on a phone!). Economically, the Italian Kingdoms (primarily Naples, but also Sicily and to a lesser extend Sardinia) were too integrated into the Spanish Monarchy and revenue system to be broken off. This is due to two things: the lack of major threat to the Kingdoms after the Battle of Pavia and the very weak Parliamentary institutions in all three states. The lack of a French threat meant that the various revenues that would have had to go to paying for troops stationed in the respective kingdoms were now freed up to plug various fiscal gaps elsewhere. As for the Parliamentary institutions, both Naples and Sicily's "parliaments" had been weakened by centuries of centralized, semi-absolute rule by the Angevins and Aragonese, which meant the Monarch (or his Viceroy) pretty much had carte blanch to spend revenues however they wanted.
Compare this to the Low Countries of Milan. Both of these states had very high tax revenues, but all of it was absorbed on local spending. So there was no extra money to plug the holes in the "imperial" budget. Quite bluntly, the Spanish budget could not afford to lose the 1-3 million ducats a year they got form the Italian states.
Compare this to the Low Countries of Milan. Both of these states had very high tax revenues, but all of it was absorbed on local spending. So there was no extra money to plug the holes in the "imperial" budget. Quite bluntly, the Spanish budget could not afford to lose the 1-3 million ducats a year they got form the Italian states.
Got it. So Juan is Viceroy in Naples, and what duchy he could get there as to make his line defacto viceroys?
Prince of Taranto is a traditional Sicilian/Neapolitan title that died out during the 15th century and never revived, other than that there are several titles that can be created on the spot anyway, although I'm not knowledgeable about South Italian nobility ranks and customs.
He can become a bishop and still as regent too, if Charles feels too many children can threat the inheritance.
Realistically, only Milan and Burgundy can be detached. And the later is only maybe. In OTL Charles V invested the future Felipe II with Milan in 1540 as a way to solve the succession crisis in the Duchy after the death of the last Sforza Duke (and to put off his brother Ferdinand's own attempts to claim the Duchy). So Burgundy can go to "Fernando", and Milan to Juan. I honestly don't think there will be a Neapolitan title for any of the Infantes.
For Alfonso and Carlos, one will end up in the Church as Cardinal-Archbishop of Toleldo, while the other will likely be the founder of the first "domestic" cadet branch of the Spanish Royal House sense the Villena branch of the Iversas in the 13th century. This will be a large change, as the Trastámaras and the later Habsburgs failed to produce a domestic cadet branch in OTL. In terms of titles and structure of the apanage, I think Charles would likely turn to his Portuguese and French relatives: so the Duchy would get its title from one of the Castilian provinces (as there wasn't any existing secondary royal titles) and rights of the apanagist from France (possibly also from Portugal, but I'm not as familiar with that one).
This is economically impossible as explained by @Emperor Constantine and politically impossible because the Kingdom of Naples is part of the Crown of Aragon, only option would be to divide the crown of Aragon and the Crown of Castile-Leon again or give him just the title of king, but only with the power and autonomy of a Viceroy.
But at this point Spain didnt truely become dejure until the War of Spanish succession. The crowns of Castile and Crowns of Aragon were very much two seperate things operated by the same monarch. Splitting up of Aragon's lands would be seen as unwise, as that is the reason why the monarchys of the Iberian peninsula were such an inbred mess to begin with. Likely those younger sons would wind up as governors of those Italian territories.
Now I can see Charles splitting off the Dutch and giving them to a second son to rule. Given both the distance and difference in cultureto spain. Although what form that would be is another debate. As the Burgundian inheritance was a collection of Counties and Duchies. The prince Electors wouldn't allow Charles to pull a Kingdom Title out of his ass, and calling it the Kingdom of Lotherigia would be awkward as the duchy of lotherigia wasn't a part of the Burgundian lands. Plus it would create issues with the HRE since the King of Bohemia was usually the emperor, and having another kingdom not ruled by the emperor would cause problems. Can't have an Arch Duchy of the low Counties. Since arch-duchies are like the Highlander and there can be only one. A suppose a Grand Duchy is possible, there was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, but that was sort of the title of Lithuania as a pagan country, it was briefly a Kingdom under an early Christian King, but then became a grand duchy when the following rulers were pagan. During Charles Rule the Grand-Duchy of moscow, upgraded to a Tsardom. And Europe wouldnt see another Grand duchy until Tuscany in 1569 about 4 years after Charles died
Now I can see Charles splitting off the Dutch and giving them to a second son to rule. Given both the distance and difference in cultureto spain. Although what form that would be is another debate. As the Burgundian inheritance was a collection of Counties and Duchies. The prince Electors wouldn't allow Charles to pull a Kingdom Title out of his ass, and calling it the Kingdom of Lotherigia would be awkward as the duchy of lotherigia wasn't a part of the Burgundian lands. Plus it would create issues with the HRE since the King of Bohemia was usually the emperor, and having another kingdom not ruled by the emperor would cause problems. Can't have an Arch Duchy of the low Counties. Since arch-duchies are like the Highlander and there can be only one. A suppose a Grand Duchy is possible, there was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, but that was sort of the title of Lithuania as a pagan country, it was briefly a Kingdom under an early Christian King, but then became a grand duchy when the following rulers were pagan. During Charles Rule the Grand-Duchy of moscow, upgraded to a Tsardom. And Europe wouldnt see another Grand duchy until Tuscany in 1569 about 4 years after Charles died
Perhaps only one of the youngest sons. After all, look at what happened to Manuel I's sons....
With regards to duchies: Salerno, perhaps? Apulia? Benevento?
look that even Ferdinand II in full 30YW was playing with the idea of elevating the archduchy to a real kingdom, it was only the possible disputes with his relatives that made him rethink this
Felipe/Philippe/Filips will get Spain, any second son will get Naples and Sicily, simply because being king is more prestigious. John (Giovanni)? I suggest Maximilian and Alfonso doesn't seem that obvious either, perhaps Charles. Then it depends on whether Giovanni/Maximilian or Alfonso/Charles is the favourite of Charles V. The favourite will receive the Burgundian Inheritance, while the other will be richly compensated with the duchy of Milan.
The kingdom of Naples was only reconquered by the main Aragonese branch of the house of Trastamare, in 1504 by Ferdinand I of Aragon.
IOTL in 1549 Charles V issued a Pragmatic Sanction, which turned the Burgundian Netherlands into a indivisible territory (it thus streamlined the succession laws in the various constituent principalities).
Moreover most of Lower Lotharingia, with the successor state, the duchy of Brabant, who also held the by now mostly titular duchy of Lothier/Lothryk. They only didn't control most of Upper Lotharingia, with the successor state the duchy of Lorraine (aka Moselle during the Middle Ages) & duchy of Bar. Not to mention, that two Prince-Electorates, also were formed from former Lotharingian territory, Cologne (Lower Lotharingia) and Trier (Upper Lotharingia).
Duke Philip the Good of Burgundy, was once offered (during negotiations) the elevation of Brabant to a kingdom or even to be made king of Frisia/Friesland. By now Eastfriesland had become an County under Imperial Immediacy, so Frisia is off the table. An elevation is still possible, though after the Pragmatic Sanction, this could also be the Netherlands (back then the whole Low Countries and some parts of northern France and western Germany), a royal Crown seems unlikely, as does Archduchy (even though as Habsburgs, they did have it as dynastic title), but a Grand Duchy could be a reasonable compromise.