A Better Rifle at Halloween

Try Supplying War by Martin van Creveld. It's a survey of Logistics, in the words of the subtitle " From Wallenstein to Patton" and has long regarded a basic text in the field. It has a very good chapter on the German offensive in the West in 1914
Thank you. Since this work comes up so often on this and other threads I have ordered a copy. I did find an interesting discussion of German logistics in Home Before the Leaves Fall Ian Senior, pp. 311-16, 330. Basically each Army needs a double gauge rail line, which they don't have here. I suspect horse and motor transport should be able to supply TTL Battle of Charleroi adequately. It will be interesting to see what happens to German 1st Army.
 
Thank you. Since this work comes up so often on this and other threads I have ordered a copy. I did find an interesting discussion of German logistics in Home Before the Leaves Fall Ian Senior, pp. 311-16, 330. Basically each Army needs a double gauge rail line, which they don't have here. I suspect horse and motor transport should be able to supply TTL Battle of Charleroi adequately. It will be interesting to see what happens to German 1st Army.
My pleasure. Van Creveldt points out, I seem to remember.that in OTL motor transport was reserved for the supply of ammunition so the troops often had plenty of ammo, but ran short of everything else.
 
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No idea if I could either. I used to be able to tell .303 from .30-06 though.
Really? I do not doubt you. I must listen harder. I have spent a life around full bore rifles but never thought to try to tell the difference between one 30 cal high velocity round from another. A whole ne field of study awaits me. I wonder if distance makes a difference. I was behind a firing point with 303, 7.62 nato, 30.06 7.5 etc all in use. I could not tell the difference. .223 is higher pitched. 30/30. 7.62x 39 etc all a bit duller, the blackpowder large bores have more of a boom than a crack, but all the 30s sound pretty much the same to me. .....I must try harder.
 
Try Supplying War by Martin van Creveld. It's a survey of Logistics, in the words of the subtitle " From Wallenstein to Patton" and has long regarded a basic text in the field. It has a very good chapter on the German offensive in the West in 1914
For a superior study of the British logistics you really cannot go past British Logistics on the Western Front: 1914-1919 by Ian M. Brown. Superbly written and researched, it covers the British logistics effort from the war's start to it's end.

 
RNAS in Action
1st September 1914, Krishouten.

Lieutenant Commander Samson had taken a Rolls Royce car out to scout the German lines and to recover a downed Short S.41 aircraft, this aircraft had been undertaking reconnaissance when it had gone down. The report from one of the outlying cavalry squadrons had been telegraphed through to the R.N.A.S. base near Ghent and Samson had set off immediately to find the Aircrew and recover them.
He was aware of the presence of German Cavalry units in the vicinity, so he took a pair of cars, he had managed to acquire a pair of Belgian Hotchkiss guns. These guns were mounted in the cars so that they could be used by a man stood in the passenger compartment of the car and fired whilst on the move.
Their initial mission had been highly successful, they had recovered the Pilot, Observer and the camera which the observer was using to take photographs. Unfortunately as they attempted to return they found their way blocked by advancing German Cavalry units.
This necessitated a long detour to get in front of the advancing Germans before returning to the British lines, their detour had been made more complex by the huge numbers of Belgian civilians still fleeing on foot away from the German advance.
They had finally outpaced the invader as they entered Krishouten, there they found the Belgian Garde Civique had constructed a barricade across the main road. After convincing them that they were British and not German, a task assisted by the White Ensign which they were flying from the lead vehicle and the horrible schoolboy French of Lt Commander Sampson. They agreed to assist the Belgians with the initiation of an ambush on the first German unit to enter the town. With that in mind they positioned the two cars on the edge of an adjacent wood, this position gave them the ability to enfilade the Germans as they shook out of marching order to attack the town when they encountered the barricade. They did not intend to stay for long, the Belgians would be routed and in keeping with the brutal methods which the Germans had adopted, likely any survivors would be shot. But in this war, anything which delayed the seemingly unstoppable flood of German units across Belgium was worthwhile.
A unit of German Lancers had appeared and was trotting forward on the road into Krishouten, the road made a sharp turn by the old church, which was the centre of village life. Hidden from view by the church and the turn in road, the barricade was of relatively sturdy construction, it consisted of several farm wagons which had been overturned, timber baulks and piles of bricks had also been piled up as breastworks behind the wagons. The Garde Civique unit which consisted of 35 men, had most of them on the barricade itself, a number however had chosen the bell tower of the church as a position from which to fire, whilst a few more were concealed in the buildings which overlooked the barricade.
The Lancer unit, which was in approximately squadron strength paused before the village, a few horsemen peeled off from the column and road to the nearby farmhouses to check for threats. A single troop, then trotted forward into the village, their nonchalant entrance was met by heavy gunfire and the rapid retreat of many of the horsemen and riderless horses.
The squadron commander gave an order, and the column began to advance with half the cavalry riding to enter the town and the other half clearly moving to out flank the defenders by riding between the town and the wood. This would place them astride both the gardes line of retreat but also and more importantly that of Lt Commander Sampson and his party. Fortunately for Sampson as the cavalry split they were in such a position as to be easily fired on by his two machine guns. This commenced with the Hotchkiss guns sending bursts of fire down range onto the German cavalry. The first fire had taken them completely by surprise and had been devastating more than 15 horses had been downed and their pain could be heard over the hammer of the guns. The flanking unit seemed unsure of where the fire was coming from, the village or the wood, they wavered, an opportunity to reload both guns, firing as they did from 24 round strips this was something that would be required many times in this brief engagement. The fire resumed and the more cavalrymen fell. Determining them not to be a threat with a third their number unhorsed or dead Sampson directed the fire be moved onto the other column. They had bunched up before the Belgian defenders, trying to deal with the Garde Civique, they had not noticed the ambush of their compatriots nor the sound of the machine gun firing. Their position was well chosen, the cavalry had taken cover from the barricade and were tying down the Belgians effectively, small groups of cavalry were also trying to work around the defenders in the buildings but clearly they were going to rely on the other column taking the Belgians in the rear. The machine guns began firing on them, the first group to be taken under fire were the horse holders that were on the edge of the village. Soon they were down, shot or kicked by panic horses, Sampson could not tell but the guns had done a fearsome execution amongst both horse and man. The next target was the cavalry taking cover from the barricade, their positions for the most part were effective against the Garde Civique but did not consider what was on their flanks, and the pounding of the heavy machine guns were soon to be heard. Like the flanking column the attacking cavalry began to retreat, almost immediately retreat became rout, leaving the dead and wounded scattered on the road way.
Returning to fire on the flanking column, Sampson worked them over again before he ordered his men to retire, they packed up and drove off. Leaving one of the leading units of the German First Army bleeding in their wake.
The return to the British lines was uneventful after that, though petrol was running short by the time they got back to Ghent. Sampson sent a brief report to his HQ and included a copy for the 3rd army intelligence officers to consider.
He reviewed the action in his own mind, taking the view that whilst they had managed to damage the Germans out of all proportion to their numbers, had they run into a well-positioned machine gun they would have been destroyed. He also took the view that had he had a wireless unit, he could have provided intelligence on the positions of the German units he encountered rapidly, rather than after he returned to the British lines.
 
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Errolwi

Monthly Donor
Excellent. Although isn't it odd that reading about the wounded horses is more disturbing than the men.
Also wireless rather than radio?
 
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I would think that action is going to have effects all out of proportion too its numbers. Machineguns were pretty rare on the ground early in the War, with a BEF numbers being something like two allocated to a Battalion. The Germans might get the false impression that the location is held by a force a lot stronger than was actually there and delay their advance until they can bring up more forces to deal with it.

It's also going to bring the value of motorised scout vehicles armed with machineguns to the fore, though considering how quickly the Rolls-Royce Armoured Car was developed, anything that is going to bring forward its introduction will merely be a matter of weeks at most, though you might have the Navy and Army fighting over who gets them.
 
Why would the Navy want them? Transporting car to shore takes a long time for any rapid shore assault.
OTL the first official British armoured car unit was a Royal Navy Air Service squadron. It was the RNAS that came up with the modifications to turn a Silver Ghost into the Rolls-Royce Armoured Car. Strange but true
 
Excellent. Although isn't it odd that reading about the wounded horses is more disturbing than the men.
Also wireless rather than radio?
Corrected to wireless unit.
Injured horses make a horrible noise, badly injured humans tend to be quiet.
 
OTL the first official British armoured car unit was a Royal Navy Air Service squadron. It was the RNAS that came up with the modifications to turn a Silver Ghost into the Rolls-Royce Armoured Car. Strange but true
They were intended for just this role, I changed it by bringing the action forward a couple of days and also changing the machine guns from maxims to some scrounged up Hotchkiss guns. Someone had requested the RNAS get a role and I have always thought that with a little push they could have been more useful.
 
OTL the first official British armoured car unit was a Royal Navy Air Service squadron. It was the RNAS that came up with the modifications to turn a Silver Ghost into the Rolls-Royce Armoured Car. Strange but true
As I understand it the Rolls Royce Armoured car was Lieutenant Commander Samson's personal car that he unofficially took to Belgium and modified.
 
As I understand it the Rolls Royce Armoured car was Lieutenant Commander Samson's personal car that he unofficially took to Belgium and modified.
not sure if it was his car, he fitted a car with a maxim gun but he atmoured it in response to ambushing a German scout car in early September. I imagine a lot of private cars would have gone to France and Belgium.
 
Although isn't it odd that reading about the wounded horses is more disturbing than the men.
Injured horses make a horrible noise, badly injured humans tend to be quiet.
There's that. And there's thousands of years of romanticisation of horses and their treatment as near human. Arendt I think criticises (in the scholarly, expansive sense) the Greeks over the view of Slaves and Horses as equivalent labour, the vocative nature of the Slave being irrelevant to their use as mechanical labour, and their mechanical power being deficient to a horse's mechanical power. Horses were living emotional machines that all people were familiar with.

Horses are *effectively* controlled by humans by emotional control, and ineffectively controlled by brutality. Humans anthropomorphise horses when they're used to emotionally controlling them, or even when they're familiar with them as machines. And humans brutalising an animal that has been anthropomorphised and is a familiar emotional being is distressing. Unlike "Ordinary Men" you can't put ideology between you an an injured horse: they're "not aligned," in human disputes about State, Religion or Economy.[*1] Pit Ponies inspired more pity than boys or women in the public, because humans are practiced at detesting other humans, but view horses as "unengaged" in culture. Humans are uncontrollable emotionally by other humans, horses are controllable by experts. Horses make better tools. Seeing tools damaged is an offence against human's fantasies of proper orders and uses. Bend and blunt a chef's knife and watch the agony in someone who knows how the tool is used.

And, to restate diesal's point, their screaming is horrifying, emotional, and apolitically anthropomorphic for humans.

Sam

[*1] Discussions of horses in military use against civilians, paramilitary, paramilitary police, political irregulars or police use are currently highly politicised. Not even someone's position on Peterloo (1819) will tell you if they agree that the horse is a machine of the state when ridden to crush humans beneath their shoes. Even someone who opposes Peterloo will cry "poor horses."
 
There's also the fact that horses are innocent victims in war whereas every soldier has ultimately made a choice to be there. Even conscripts choose whether to obey the state and report for duty when called or to run.
 
As I understand it the Rolls Royce Armoured car was Lieutenant Commander Samson's personal car that he unofficially took to Belgium and modified.
The version everyone knows , with the turret, was designed/specified by Flight Commander T.G. Hetherington in response to Samson's success with an ad hoc turretless version .
 
OTL Freyberg walked up to Churchill in a park and got a commission in the Royal Naval Division!
That mans service record prior to WW2 would have made a great paperback book series. Prior to WW1 he was fighting with Pancho Villa in Mexico. When he found out about the war breaking out, he made it back to the US west coast on the money he had. He had to win a swimming competition to get funds to get to New York. Winning a boxing match for him enough money to make it across the Atlantic. He was one of the few RND members to make it out of Belgium. At Gallipoli he initiated a one man landing by swimming ashore, distracting the Turks from the actual landing and getting them to call in their reserves and artillery. He then swam out and was fished out by a destroyer, near hypothermia. The only reason he got DSO instead of the Victoria Cross for that one was that he was alone, and VC requires witnesses.

Whatever else he was, that guy was a grade-A bad***.
 
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