A Battle of Plassey Question

VVD0D95

Banned
Hey all,

Hope you’re well?

Got a twist on an old question.

Let’s say that the battle of plassey ends in a Bengali victory but during the fighting both Siraj ud Dalah and Mir Jafar die, what happens next?

Do the British try and put Mir Qasim, Jafar don in law immediately onto the throne, or are they too badly damaged by the loss ti try anything?

Is there complete chaos in Bengal?

If so, could this assist the Mughals if they try and recapture the breakaway province?
 

Emperor of Greater India

They could try to intervene, depending on how badly they are beat up but, a defeat would nonetheless be a morale breaking event for the Brits, at least in the short term, as they might not think themselves strong enough to intervene in local power struggles and be the one to tip the scales. They will definitely take advantage of any weaknesses, but outright picking sides, or anyone inviting them in for that seems unlikely.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Emperor of Greater India said:
They could try to intervene, depending on how badly they are beat up but, a defeat would nonetheless be a morale breaking event for the Brits, at least in the short term, as they might not think themselves strong enough to intervene in local power struggles and be the one to tip the scales. They will definitely take advantage of any weaknesses, but outright picking sides, or anyone inviting them in for that seems unlikely.
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Interesting and with both Jafar and Siraj dead ttl, there’d a huge power vacuum which the Mughals could try to exploit no?
 

Emperor of Greater India

VVD0D95 said:
Interesting and with both Jafar and Siraj dead ttl, there’d a huge power vacuum which the Mughals could try to exploit no?
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That is contingent on the Mughals being able to get their act together, and securing local allies before trying anything. Getting Awadh to support them in such political maneuvering will also help tremnedously, as well as their military backing will be needed.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Emperor of Greater India said:
That is contingent on the Mughals being able to get their act together, and securing local allies before trying anything. Getting Awadh to support them in such political maneuvering will also help tremnedously, as well as their military backing will be needed.
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Agreed, hmm what sort of enticements could the Mughals use to bring Awadh inside?
 
PerhapsItsChondoLal

PerhapsItsChondoLal

I find it quite unlikely that the Mughals could even rebound from their decline, let alone work with Awadh to subdue Bengal - we saw what Mughal-Awadhi cooperation amounted to in the Battle of Buxar. What I find more likely would be Shaukat Jang, the ruler of Purnea and a contender to Siraj, would make a grab for the throne - he was the British-backed candidate for the Bengali masnad. Siraj was already en route to stomp his rebellion out before they signed a truce and Siraj rushed to capture Calcutta.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
PerhapsItsChondoLal said:
I find it quite unlikely that the Mughals could even rebound from their decline, let alone work with Awadh to subdue Bengal - we saw what Mughal-Awadhi cooperation amounted to in the Battle of Buxar. What I find more likely would be Shaukat Jang, the ruler of Purnea and a contender to Siraj, would make a grab for the throne - he was the British-backed candidate for the Bengali masnad. Siraj was already en route to stomp his rebellion out before they signed a truce and Siraj rushed to capture Calcutta.
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Tbf Mughal Awadhi alliance was hindered more by shah Alam not attacking the British at the peak opportunity. They were on the rise before then. Alam managed to take Bihar and odisha after all
 
PerhapsItsChondoLal

PerhapsItsChondoLal

VVD0D95 said:
What would be needed for them to secure Odisha? An extra campaign?
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Even with a defeat at Buxar, the EIC sepoys would still be formidable fighting force and fighting through Bengal would be a slog. Too disastrous to be even called a pyrhhic victory for the victors.
For Odisha - the problem is...it was controlled by the Marathas - and if the Mughals + Awadh attack the Marathas...
 

VVD0D95

Banned
PerhapsItsChondoLal said:
Even with a defeat at Buxar, the EIC sepoys would still be formidable fighting force and fighting through Bengal would be a slog. Too disastrous to be even called a pyrhhic victory for the victors.
For Odisha - the problem is...it was controlled by the Marathas - and if the Mughals + Awadh attack the Marathas...
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Tbf if the EIC is concisely defeated then what may happen is the Mughals may do what they did in the past and bring them into the fold through Jagir grabs and robes of honour. As @Madhukar_Shah said elsewhere
 

TrickyApe

Without the resources of Bengal the British are going to have a harder time with the French. Remember they're fighting the Seven Years War concurrently with their colonial adventure in Bengal. At the very least they're going to have trouble assembling any sort of force to try again in the Bengal region, and they might even have trouble keeping the French out of Madras.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
TrickyApe said:
Without the resources of Bengal the British are going to have a harder time with the French. Remember they're fighting the Seven Years War concurrently with their colonial adventure in Bengal. At the very least they're going to have trouble assembling any sort of force to try again in the Bengal region, and they might even have trouble keeping the French out of Madras.
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Interesting
 

M79

Mir Jafar doesn't defect to the British and Clive suffers a significant defeat. Siraj ud Dalah survives and gains the attention of Hyder Ali in Mysore, whose love for the BEC is even less than that of Bengal. Together they begin to run over first eastern? then northern, then western India and Burma. A marriage alliance unites the subcontinent after the Dutch seduced Mir Jafar with power, his subsequent unpleasant death served as a warning to all who would try to challenge the power of the United Sultanate of Hindustan. France tried unsuccessfully to push further commercial inroads but only rouses the ire of the subcontinent. Ironically the Austrians and Danish profit greatly as the masters of Euro-Indian trade, by 1900 the United Sultanate stretches from Tibet to Travancore and Jammu to Java.
 

prani

Banned
VVD0D95 said:
Is there complete chaos in Bengal?
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Realistically this is possible, thanks to the Marathas. You guys are forgetting the fact that in 1751 the Nawab of Bengal agreed to pay to the Marathas, that is to the Nagpur state, Chauth and Sardeshmukhi and Odisha was annexed by the Maratha confederation. With the Defeat of the British in Plassey it would open the door to Maratha raids and Bengal is RICH very RICH, rich enough to bankroll the Maratha conquest of north west. Mughal Victory might delay the Marathas taking over Delhi but IF the Marathas take advantage of the British weakness and attack Bengal instead of Delhi which they did IOTL battle of Delhi and manage to extract tribute from Bengal in return for not raping and looting Bengal, then Marathas would have the finances to take over the rest of India in a much more sustained manner. A lot things would change, things would go back to the old Mughal Vs Maratha framework, although tables have turned in this second round of war but I see the Marathas taking over easily. They have the territory, the Army, the Bureaucracy, Virulent Ideology which combines the best aspects of Hindu and Islamic thoughts forming a new Indian identity in its wake.
PerhapsItsChondoLal said:
What do you mean?
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Yeah I don't think Odisha was under the Mughals at this point, it was firmly under the Marathas.
M79 said:
Mir Jafar doesn't defect to the British and Clive suffers a significant defeat. Siraj ud Dalah survives and gains the attention of Hyder Ali in Mysore, whose love for the BEC is even less than that of Bengal.
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Why are people forgetting the Marathas and with your idea the Nizam of Hyderabad, Those together were much more of force than the Mughals or Hyder Ali combined and the latter was not popular with his people. In the event of the British defeat, the British would begin to Back the Marathas probably in hopes of getting concession since Mughals want nothing to do with them. It would be one last Hurrah before the eventual extinguishment of Mughal power in India by a combined coalition of different powers.
 
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