I actually was trying to be fair to the Czechoslovaks the best I could here, but it seems almost inevitable that if such a partition occurs the Hungarians would launch an invasion of Slovakia.
8mm to the Left: If Hitler Died in 1923
- Thread starter KaiserKatze
- Start date
In some ways losing the Sudetenland is better for Czechoslovak stability as it better balances the Slovak half opposite the Czech, making the nation one of a more equal marriage than the Czechs dominating the Slovaks. If Germany is willing to guarantee the Czech borders following the seizure of territory, I could see them reluctantly ceding it, especially since pushing back against Germany creates a very likely scenario of a partition between Germany, Hungary, and Poland
I think Germany could get all the marbles here:
- Have Slovakia declare independence in return for protection against Hungarian/Polish claims
- Start talks with Britain for a Munich Agreement
- Warn Czechia about Munich, suggest an Anschluss instead - one which guarantees Czech minority rights and favourable trade terms
Granted, I doubt any of the Reichstag will come up with this on their own without a time machine.
- Have Slovakia declare independence in return for protection against Hungarian/Polish claims
- Start talks with Britain for a Munich Agreement
- Warn Czechia about Munich, suggest an Anschluss instead - one which guarantees Czech minority rights and favourable trade terms
Granted, I doubt any of the Reichstag will come up with this on their own without a time machine.
I don't think anyone in Germany bar those,who ITTL and OTL were affiliated with NSDAP and other nationalist pangermanist parties would advocate for inclusion of 6+ million Czechs into Germany. Lettow-Vorbeck is ruling with help of effectively grand coalition of the Right, ranging from Zentrum, minor right wing liberals and DNVP-affiliated block. None of them would support such a move, not even DNVP, as it was a Protestant Prussian party.
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What would Germans who aren't frothing at the mouth genetic purity types be fundamentally opposoed to including Czechia? It has historic ties to Germany, due it being part of the HRE for centuries and is well developed and industralized meaning it'll not be a net drain on the treasury.
If your reasoning was correct then Germany would also refuse to take back A-L, even if France offered it for free on a silver platter due to it being too French and Catholic.
Plus, there's also the fact that the Czechs wouldn't want to go back to basically a pre-1918 state of affairs...
I think the Czechs would accept becoming protected by the Germans and entering into a free-trade agreement with them, giving Germany all the positives of Czech industry with none of the downside of administering it, and continuing the Czechoslovak state. I don't think Germany would force Slovakian independence solely because I don't really think they care that much.
If the Slovaks are still joined with the Czechs, there’s no way they say yes - it’s got to be a least-bad choice between “union” or “client state.”
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I can tell you that none of the Prussian elite-types ITTL are interested in annexing Czechia completely, it is near-guarenteed that any such annexation would be hostile and would create an enormous headache. Many Germans sought a resolution to the Alsace-Lorraine issue because of how much it disrupted internal stability--Czechia would be a problem of much larger and more difficult scale. That is not to say that they don't have designs on it, but their ideal would be based on annexing the border regions and turning the rest of Czechia into a puppet state.
Speaking of NSDAP-types, I will say that Göring does have his fingers deep in Czechoslovakia, including in the Slovakian nationalist pie...
I just personally don't think Slovakian independence, unless it somehow benefits German interests (I don't really see how it does, especially when Hungary has it's eyes on Slovakia, so sponsoring the concept of "Slovaks aren't Czech or Hungarian" wouldn't exactly make relations any better), would occur. I have no doubts Germany wouldn't keep a note on it, and especially Göring of all people would be interested in it.
@KaiserKatze If the nationalists win a possible Spanish Civil War and France, it seems, becomes fascist, there could be a push for a "Latin Union", bringing together the Latin peoples of western Europe (who, coincidentally, in addition to sharing cultures and similar languages, and being mostly Catholic, would they also share the same type of government: Fascism) to oppose an Anglo-Saxon, German, American and Soviet hegemony?
France and Italy, which are considered great powers, could not, individually, be demographically and economically equal to the USA, Germany, Soviet Union and the British Commonwealth, meaning that economic cooperation, for example, would not be considered unrealistic.
europeanconservative.com
France and Italy, which are considered great powers, could not, individually, be demographically and economically equal to the USA, Germany, Soviet Union and the British Commonwealth, meaning that economic cooperation, for example, would not be considered unrealistic.
The Latin Empire: Alexandre Kojève’s European Conservatism
His philosophy of history was unquestionably revolutionary, but Kojève was a conservative. The essence of his prescription for Europe remains relevant for t ...
europeanconservative.com
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The idea of a Latin Union could be something that the French and Italians could indeed look towards, especially with how Fascist Italy's rhetoric was very much built on the idea of a "New Roman Empire" and all that.@KaiserKatze If the nationalists win a possible Spanish Civil War and France, it seems, becomes fascist, there could be a push for a "Latin Union", bringing together the Latin peoples of western Europe (who, coincidentally, in addition to sharing cultures and similar languages, and being mostly Catholic, would they also share the same type of government: Fascism) to oppose an Anglo-Saxon, German, American and Soviet hegemony?
France and Italy, which are considered great powers, could not, individually, be demographically and economically equal to the USA, Germany, Soviet Union and the British Commonwealth, meaning that economic cooperation, for example, would not be considered unrealistic.
The Latin Empire: Alexandre Kojève’s European Conservatism
His philosophy of history was unquestionably revolutionary, but Kojève was a conservative. The essence of his prescription for Europe remains relevant for t ...
I wonder how Portugal and Romania would fit into this? Portugal is Latin but also strongly aligned with the UK. Romania is Orthodox instead of Catholic, has Slavic cultural and linguistic influence, and is physically detached from the rest.
yes, but if the larger powers, such as Brazil or Argintina wanted to join, the US probably could not intervene to much
I think it could work bc movements like this don't really think about problems like this, especially when Hungary would want to take Romanian territory.
Maybe they say that they're not 'true Latin-speakers' as some sort of exception.
This is the 20's and 30's not now, the US IOTL intervening from what the IOTL Nazi's were doing, ITTL I can see them being the same. If they think some one is trying something, even the isolationist are going to support doing something. You also have the rivalry between powers in South America not letting other countries get more help than them and turning to the US to help. The US already was intervening in Central America in the 30's with the Marines in Nicaragua and they would not have a problem getting public support by making a Central American country being a threat to the Panama Canal.
unfortunate, also is Brazil still an empire, or has it fallen to the mess it is
Why should it be? the POD is in 1923 and it already had been a republic for years by then. And considering that the Great Depression hasn't been butterflied away, in all likelihood, nothing really changed there compared to OTL.