2nd Mexican-American War or the War of 1869...

[AbyssalDaemon]

Still smarting over their loss nearly twenty years earlier at American hands, Mexico sees the Civil War as their chance to retake what was taken from them and begins to secretly train their troops, waiting to attack whoever wins while at the same time trying to make a alliance with France (and perhaps Britain but I can’t really see them joining in, stretched thin as they are across the Empire)…

[FONT=&quot]On 1869 only hours after being sworn in Grant is brought news of suspicious troop movements near the Texas border. So what happens next, how will this change the future political landscape? Will a war with a outside power help heal the rift between the North and South?[/FONT]

 

[Guildencrantz]

Still smarting over their loss nearly twenty years earlier at American hands, Mexico sees the Civil War as their chance to retake what was taken from them and begins to secretly train their troops, waiting to attack whoever wins while at the same time trying to make a alliance with France (and perhaps Britain but I can’t really see them joining in, stretched thin as they are across the Empire)…

[FONT=&quot]On 1869 only hours after being sworn in Grant is brought news of suspicious troop movements near the Texas border. So what happens next, how will this change the future political landscape? Will a war with a outside power help heal the rift between the North and South?[/FONT]

I don't see the alliance with France happening. you forgot, that just a few years earlier, the Mexicans kicked out all French influence. heres the Wiki link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_intervention_in_Mexico

 

[panzerjay]

against battle harden veterans? mexico gets squished and northen mexico becomes an american military department

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

I don't see the alliance with France happening. you forgot, that just a few years earlier, the Mexicans kicked out all French influence. heres the Wiki link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_intervention_in_Mexico

Opps... Didn't know that. Okay, so does anyone have any idea of any other nations that would be willing to support Mexico? Though they might just do it on their own thinking that America has been to weakened by the Civil War to give them a good chance of winning.

 

[The Sicilian]

Why would they wait for four years? America would have made some recovery...

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

against battle harden veterans? mexico gets squished and northen mexico becomes an american military department

True but pride makes people do stupid things. Besides on paper the idea would look good after all at this point the South is still recovering, their are strong tensions between it and the North, the American people are sick of war, and that they lost a good number of solders in the war... it's only when they try to use it that reality is going to hit them in the face.

 

[Shades]

Why not have the Mexicans attack toward the end of the war, instead of having them wait until after it ends. This would make border states rethink their current alliance, but I couldn't say for sure what would happen with the original Confederates. They could decide to rejoin the union, cede their claimed territory for a truce or support, or they could lose out to both the Union and Mexico.

 

[Bulldawg85]

French empire in Mexico

Why not have the Mexicans attack toward the end of the war, instead of having them wait until after it ends. This would make border states rethink their current alliance, but I couldn't say for sure what would happen with the original Confederates. They could decide to rejoin the union, cede their claimed territory for a truce or support, or they could lose out to both the Union and Mexico.

The Mexicans didn't totally throw out the French until 1867 so they there is a 2 yr window when the US is recovering from the ACW. There is virtually no chance that Maximillian is going to open up a 2nd front against the Americans and if he does he's going to get squashed faster than a mosquito. The Mexicans aren't going to attack the US because the US is a friend at this time or at least an ally until they defeat the French. This is going to require a butterfly where the French don't set up Maximillian as Emperor of Mexico.

 

[President Ledyard]

I'm sorry but launching an invasion after the Civil War would be tantamount to sticking your Johnson in a blender.

Way, way too many experienced commanders and veterans.

 

[Tocomocho]

Oh yeah. The best to do in the aftermath of the most brutal civil war that had destroyed your country and an European invasion is invading a neighbour many times bigger and more powerful.

What's the POD? Epidemy of suicide endencies among the Mexicn Government members?

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Oh yeah. The best to do in the aftermath of the most brutal civil war that had destroyed your country and an European invasion is invading a neighbour many times bigger and more powerful.

What's the POD? Epidemy of suicide endencies among the Mexicn Government members?

ASB's replace Mexican governants' minds by their stereotypical bad movies counterparts.

 

[Shades]

Not to say I wasn't suggestive in any way, I was (sorry). However I don't think that Mexico losing would be bad for what it might accomplish. As long as they keep up an alright fight for a while, and it's (relatively) short after or before the end of the war, it could bring the Union and the Confederates to a better place in terms of sentiment toward each other. If the Confederates rejoin the Union (as they would, given the idea of this thread) Lincoln might not be assassinated, although there would be more political changes, and I don't know much of what ells the immediate effects could be. I just think I should state (to remind anyone who cares to listen to me, and to show AbyssalDaemon I too know) that AbyssalDaemon asked if such a scenario would "help heal the rift between the North and South."

 

[Bmao]

A war with Mexico probably would help heal the rift between North and South faster than it had in OTL, simply because now America has a common enemy again.

One way that Mexico might get crazy enough to attack the United States during this period is if, say, Porfirio Diaz is somehow able to seize the presidency. Diaz at this time was highly popular among the Mexican people, the troops especially, for his actions against the French and it would not be too much of a stretch that he could become the president of Mexico by the late 1860's. Perhaps Diaz, made overconfident after expelling the French from Mexico, would then decide he might as well try and take back territory from the Gringos.

If Mexico were to make its ill-fated invasion of the United States, it might take a little while for the bulk Federal troops to make it to the border regions, mostly because most of the infastructure of the South is still destroyed. Yet once those troops arrive, Diaz and whichever generals he has in his staff would have to deal with experienced veterans led by able generals, not to mention the overwhelming material and technological superiority of the US. The US navy will also have total naval superiority over Mexico, and enforce a crippling blockade. So basically, Mexico may be able to seize the initiative for a couple months at the most, overrunning a few border towns and the like, before they get absolutely crushed. European intervention would probably be unlikely, and I highly doubt that Mexico could swallow its pride to accept it, since they only kicked out the French only a few years before. I would expect that the US would snatch a good chunk of territory, make them pay reparations, install a US friendly regime, and basically reduce them to impotence. As for Diaz, he'll probably spend the rest of his days in exile.

One other social effect is that there could be many regiments of newly-freed blacks, which may help them gain more political rights and perhaps, just perhaps, lessen the Southern animosity toward them (ie:less severe Jim Crow laws).

 

[CalBear]

Opps... Didn't know that. Okay, so does anyone have any idea of any other nations that would be willing to support Mexico? Though they might just do it on their own thinking that America has been to weakened by the Civil War to give them a good chance of winning.

Against the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? In 1869?

That is just about the only time prior to the 1945 that the U.S. was capable of kicking the snot out of any or all comers, at least on North American soil. The USN was unbeatable within sight of the coastline & for a short distance further out, the Army was the most technologically advanced on Earth and could call on 100,000's of combat veterans and the country had enough rail lines to move troops along interior lines at what was, for the era, stunning speed.

The European states had ALL sent observers to the ACW, on both sides. Fight the U.S., while Sherman and Sheridan were in charge AND the likes of Chamberlin, Handcock, Longstreet & R.E. Lee were available to command, on American soil? Not going to get many takers for that one.

 

[Bmao]

Yeah, Mexico basically is f#$@ed, but it would still be cool if someone decided to write a timeline on this scenario. Like masturbating, we all need to savor a good Ameri-wank from time to time.

(Ummm... that probably came out wrong)

 

[tallwingedgoat]

Mexico was a failed state at the time. It was invaded twice by France, in 1838 and 1862, both times for failure to pay back debts. A lot people thought of Mexico the way they think about Africa now. A major reason France was driven out in 1867 was American support for Mexican liberals after the ACW. The liberals were in power in 1869, and on good terms with the US. They had their hand's full trying to rebuild the country. There's no way Mexico would or could go to war with the United States.